Iraq Veteran Gunned Down At Home : Coverup?
85I'm not Barack Obama, so I won't say the police acted stupidly without knowing more, but....
On the morning of May 5, twenty-six year old Jose Guerena was wakened by his wife with word that there were men outside their Pima County (Arizona) home. The former Marine and veteran of two combat tours in Iraq was day sleeping after pulling a night shift for the Asarco Mission mine. He woke up fast, directed his wife to hide in a closet with their four year old son, grabbed an AR-15 rifle, and headed out to defend his family.
Iraq couldn't kill him. The mine job couldn't kill him. The hometown S.W.A.T. team that burst though his front door with no warning...that was another matter. Within moments, his lifeless body slumped face down on his own kitchen floor, riddled with--get this--sixty bullets.
His own rifle, the AR-15? The safety was still on.
The Sheriff's Department is investigating. Yeah, like that works. I can investigate myself all day long, and you know what? I'm going to determine that I'm just a mighty fine fellow who never, ever does anything wrong.
Unfortunately, this is liberal loudmouth Clarence Dupnik's turf. Had this happened in Phoenix, on conservative Sheriff Joe Arpaio's watch, the place would be crawling with investigators, journalists, Eric Holder himself, you name it--all digging with sharp little claws to find out what went wrong that morning. Fernanda Echavarri of the Arizona Daily Star has done a fine job of reporting this story, but the details we do know cry out for more.
In the meantime, I've got a few random questions and observations.
1. QUESTION: Why were the police dispatchers who took Vanessa Guerena's 911 call (begging medical assistance for her downed husband after the shooting) unable to quickly determine whether or not the Guerena home address was one of those on the list to be raided that morning?
1a. COMMENT: Here's a thought: How about because it wasn't on that list? Does it make sense that any S.W.A.T. team would be dispatched to a location unknown to the dispatchers? Just saying. And if it wasn't on the list, the scramble at Dispatch suddenly makes sense. If that turns out to be the case, the man's death was decreed by a clerical error.
2. QUESTION: If Jose Guerena was on the Sheriff's target list, then why? He joined the Marines at a young age, pulled his hitch, got his discharge, and went to work in the mine, supporting a young family with a clear and obvious means of support that would have left little time for nefarious activities.
2a. COMMENT: It's going to take some extremely serious evidence to convince this old cowboy that Guerena deserved a shoot-on-sight order, with or without a weapon in his hand. Our troops in Afghanistan are not allowed to shoot bomb-planting terrorists unless the terrorists shoot first, yet here in America the police are authorized to mow down (without warning) a citizen in his own home who hasn't even taken the safety off his rifle? Oh, now there's a bit of balance for you; yes indeed.
3. QUESTION: Why 71 (at least) rounds fired by S.W.A.T. with 60 of them hitting Guerena? It only took two to terminate Osama bin Laden, for Pete's sake! They couldn't tell after, oh, say, 55 bullets or so that the perforated fellow on the floor was no longer (if he ever was) a threat?
3a. COMMENT: The Sheriff's Dept. spokesman has assured us that, by golly, five S.W.A.T. officers could and did unload that amount of ordnance in a mere seven seconds. Uh-huh. Okay; let's go with that. I used to rodeo professionally. An eight second bull ride in the middle of all that adrenaline lasts approximately as long as, let's say--not eternity, but close enough. These guys aren't taught to double-tap? Just keep panic-pulling till the slide locks open? Sorry. Not buying it.
4. QUESTION: That same spokesman quoted the former Marine as being in a crouched position, pointing his rifle at the officers, and saying, "I've got something for you." My question on this one is, Is there anybody residing in these United States of America dumb enough to believe that one?!!
4a. COMMENT: (For those who didn't understand my question.) "I've got something for you." Who says something like that when faced with armored and heavily armed enemies in superior numbers? NOT NO FREAKING COMBAT-EXPERIENCED EX-MARINE, THAT'S WHO!!
Marines don't go around talking smack during combat. If this whole thing hadn't reeked of FUBAR coverup from the get-go, that idiotic "quote" would have done it all by itself. Not to mention that he wasn't talking to S.W.A.T. up to the moment of his death; he was on the cell phone talking to his wife...until he could speak no more.
Mr. Lying-out-his-butt Spokesperson, one Lt. Michael O'Connor, also stated that, oh yeah, they found some stuff in the home that linked this residence to three others, drug happenings, you betcha. But when pinned down by a reporter, he admitted the "oversized" paraphernalia was found elsewhere and wouldn't (or couldn't) say what specifically had been found in the Guerena residence.
Which conflicts with early reports claiming the police had found "drugs and money". Now it's only "something" that "links" the Marine's home with others under investigation.
Yeah, ri-i-ight.
If it looks like a coverup, sounds like a coverup, and smells like a coverup....
Enough for now. While I would love to see Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne get involved in this investigation, I'm not holding my breath. But I do want to close with this:
Jose Guerena, thank you for your service.
[NOTE TO ANY READER WILLING TO SPEAK UP FOR A STATE-LEVEL INVESTIGATION BY CONTACTING TOM HORNE'S OFFICE: The Arizona Attorney General's contact page can be reached via THIS LINK.]
UPDATE: May 18, 2011
Arizona Daily Star #1:
Sheriff's Dept. puts a lid on Geurena-shooting info
Will say no more in SWAT killing on southwest side
By Fernanda Echavarri
Echavarri is the journalist whose reporting gave us most of the information we know today about the killing. Clearly, Dupnik's crew has been given orders not to talk to her (or to anyone else in the media) until further notice. Her article in today's paper goes on to say that records pertaining to the case have been sealed, no one from the Sheriff's Department will comment until the investigation is concluded, nobody's saying when that will be...and (through a spokesman) Sheriff Dupnik has declined an interview request by the Star.
Arizona Daily Star #2:
In the same paper, there is an editorial titled:
SWAT officers' 71 gunshots require an explanation
OUR VIEW: Alarming wall of silence surrounds death of ex-Marine in his home
In this piece, the Editors give Fernanda Echavarri full credit for her reporting on the incident. Additionally, they pose a number of questions that need answering, to wit (emphasis mine):
--What were SWAT officers looking for with the search warrant?
--Did they find anyhing illegal?
--Why did it take so long--about four minutes--for 911 dispatchers to figure out if Guerena's address was on the list of search warrants being served that morning?
--Why did officers shoot at Guerena, who had not fired his gun, 71 times?
--Why were emergency medical personnel kept out of the home for approximately an hour, even though his wife was pleading for help? Guerena was dead when they were finally allowed in.
--Why were search warrants sealed after the shooting, and was that done according to legal procedures?
In closing, a serious nod of appreciation to The Arizona Daily Star and to reporter Fernanda Echavarri for your efforts on this story. THANK YOU, and keep up the good work.
UPDATE: May 20, 2011
The Arizona Daily Star comes through again--with, as before, reporter Fernanda Echevarri at the tip of the spear. Excerpts from her most recent article, each followed by my commentary:
The man shot and killed by Pima County SWAT officers was linked to a home-invasion crew, the attorney representing the officers said Thursday.
Let's remember, the first version of the fairy tale was that the officers found "drugs and money". That changed to "oversized drug paraphernalia" which, the Department spokesman admitted under a reporter's questioning, was found in another residence entirely, not Guerena's. Now we're being asked to believe this full-time night shift mine worker was "linked" to a home invasion crew.
Folks, I've worked full time night shift in a mine. If Jose Guerena had the energy to handle that kind of job plus go around assaulting homeowners (You know, like S.W.A.T. assaulted Jose; note the clumsy attempt at implying he who lives by invasion dies by invasion.)...if he could pull that off, he was Superman. In which case the bullets would have bounced off, and he'd be alive today.
Attorney Michael Storie said authorities found rifles, handguns, body armor and a portion of a law-enforcement uniform inside the house....
Yeah? So? You'll notice they're not claiming they found anything illegal. I'd expect to find firearms in any military veteran's home in America; wouldn't you? The "portion of a law-enforcement uniform", now that does admittedly make me curious. Anybody on the S.W.A.T. team missing a pair of shorts, perhaps?
All five SWAT members were shooting from just outside the home and never entered the house, Storie (the attorney for the five S.W.A.T. team members) said.
Say what? Excuse me; I'm just trying to picture this. What were they doing, standing around in the front yard and popping off rounds into the home? How does the earlier statement that one S.W.A.T. team member's gun "misfired" (which no doubt means he yanked the trigger when he shouldn't have) and blasted chips from the doorframe--which then landed on one guy's shield and convinced the other's he'd been hit--fit into the arrangement?
This just gets curiouser and curiouser.
The five officers Storie is representing are from the Sahuarita, Marana and Oro Valley police departments, and two from the Sheriff's Department. The sheriff's SWAT team is made up of officers from different agencies.
Wait a minute. They're saying that this five member S.W.A.T. team was actually a cobbled-together bunch of guys from four different law enforcement agencies? You know, like...everybody's leftovers?
Oh, man. How much of a recipe for disaster is that?
Christopher Scileppi, the attorney for the Guerena family, summarized the defense attorney's statements rather well:
Scileppi said it took two weeks for "the fourth version of the story" and these details to emerge because "they needed to put a story out that is going to protect them."
"Bottom line is they've had two weeks to construct a story, circle the wagons," Scileppi said.
UPDATE: May 27, 2011
One helmet cam S.W.A.T. video has now been released by the Sheriff's Department. I've embedded it below. A few questions:
1. Can any of our readers get an accurate count of the shots fired?
2. Ditto for conversation among S.W.A.T. team members? I've had a slight hearing problem since last December that sometimes makes it difficult to separate words when they're spoken quickly. Over at YouTube, one commenter says he can hear an officer saying "Bang bang bang!" at 18 seconds in, and my wife confirms that, but I can't confirm (or disprove) that personally--even more help than my batsonic-hearing redhead would be appreciated!
2a. Is "Bang bang bang!" an indicator that S.W.A.T. already knew they were going in to shoot somebody, or simply what they always say before a home invasion? (If the latter, it's still disturbing, as it would indicate a general mindset that's not exactly comforting to anyone who might end up on the business end of a raid.)
3. How can this be from a helmet cam? Unless it was from a backup officer's helmet not involved in the actual assault. But there are definitely six officers showing in the video, and the Sheriff's Department has said there were five on the S.W.A.T. team, leaving the available helmet cams at what, negative one? Could it be from a vehicle-mounted camera?
4. Why video from only this "rear echelon" camera? All you can see when the door is breached is what looks like a darkened doorway. Releasing this one video is a start, but wouldn't it be helpful to see the view from at least one more, especially from an officer up close to the doorway? Possible answer: This video could easily enough be from the team vehicle, and perhaps no officers are wearing helmet cams at all. The YouTube video could be titled as such in error?
5. It looks to me like four officers fire their weapons. Earlier reports said it was three who did so. Again, input from readers/viewers on this issue would be appreciated.
6. Do the officers, in their approach to the home, seem awfully casual to you? Or is that only me?
One thing is certain: You can bet your bottom dollar that the attorneys for the Guerena family have experts analyzing this video up, down, and sideways.
Jose Guerena S.W.A.T. Video Released
UPDATE: May 28, 2011
Today, Fernanda Echavarri of the Arizona Daily Star provided an update on the Guerena case which includes a massive amount of new information based on more than 500 pages of documents suddenly released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department. I strongly suggest interested readers click on this link to read the entire article. However, for the time-challenged, here's a summary of key points contained therein:
Note: We're not saying the statements in the documents are either true or untrue. More about that in a bit.
1. All four homes raided that day belonged to Guerena family members. One was, as we know, home to Jose and Vanessa Guerena and their two children.
2. Jose's older brother, Alejandro Guerena, has had contact with police in the past, but Jose himself had an absolutely clean record.
3. Alejandro's sister-in-law and her husband were shot to death in a home invasion in late March of 2010.
4. At Jose and Graciela Celaya's home, where Pauline Guerena (Alejandro's wife) let that S.W.A.T. into the home with no shots fired, officers found $94,000 in a large shoebox under the bed, a bag of marijuana in the stove, ammo, an AK-47, bulletproof vests--in fact, most of the potentially incriminating items that were seized.
5. At the remaining home (also owned by the Celayas), stolen vehicles and discarded carpet smelling of "rotting flesh" were found.
6. The medical examiner ascertained that 22 bullets hit Jose Guerena, not 60 as was first reported to the media by a doctor.
========================================================
Okay. There's more in the article, but I'm going to focus on these six items for now.
Let's start with the 22 hits. You know what? That's even more disturbing than being told S.W.A.T. hit the man with 60. Why? Because that means, out of 71 bullets fired by this super-cop team, 49 missed their mark and went flying around loose. Some neighbors--who won't speak on the record for deathly fear of the police--say they themselves got a few bullet holes in their walls out of that deal.
Moving on to the rest of the family excluding Jose and Vanessa. Jose's brother had a sister-in-law and her spouse gunned down last year. Alejandro's wife, Pauline, opened the door for the police on May 5, 2011, at the home where most of the "key" evidence was found. Jose's neighbors report (per the Huffington Post article) that none of them heard sirens or yelling cops that morning and none of them were evacuated until after the shooting.
Let's think about that for a moment. Armed invaders hit your front door after pretty much flying in under the radar and wake you out of a sound sleep. You've had family members murdered, and not that long ago, either. You're going to assume the assault is being made by cops?
I don't think so.
Wouldn't you assume it was a cartel hit being carried out by competitors of whoever your allegedly drug-dealing brother is working for?
Yet that ex-Marine had the self-discipline to make sure first, leaving the safety on his AR-15. Had the S.W.A.T. officers been able to exercise a fraction of that level of restraint, not a shot would have been fired.
There's one item in today's info release that exposes at least one very obvious lie in the early reports that S.W.A.T. had raided all four homes simultaneously that morning. Nuh-uh! Two homes were hit simultaneously at 9:33 a.m, but the remaining two weren't approached until 12:57 p.m. and 1:00 p.m., respectively. Huh.
========================================================
Conjecture: Gonna take a flying guess here, folks. Looks like law enforcement had reason to suspect Alejandro Guerena , maybe even the Celayas, of wrongdoing--but included a whistle-clean ex-Marine only because of his close relationship with the others. Then S.W.A.T. officers assigned to raid Jose's place bungled badly--very badly--and an innocent man ended up "dead by bloodline".
That's not a conclusion, okay? Just a logical possibility.
The search warrants are still under seal, by the way. Uh-h...why?
Despite all that "money and stuff" seized at the Celaya home, nobody has been arrested in connection with any of the raids. Uh-h...why not?
UPDATE: Memorial Day, May 30, 2011
Today, twenty-five days after his death, Jose Guerena was honored by an Oath Keepers' march to his home in Tucson. I'm posting a few photos from that march--and one very special video, a two-minute interview with one of Jose's coworkers at the mine where they both worked long, grueling, 12-hour night shifts. If you only have time for one video, this one is it.
The KVOA news segment about the march also included comments from participants that indicate pressure will be brought to bear on Governor Brewer to push for change in police S.W.A.T. procedures...and of course the expected police spokesperson's response that their procedures are just fine "as is"--and that it's a good idea to just answer your door when the law comes a-pounding. Which would be true...if you could be sure they were actually police..
Unfortunately, when they're assaulting your door, even shouting the word "police" very loudly isn't worth much. Not when criminal home invasion gangs have adopted the same tactic and when you have (as in Guerena's case) already had family members murdered during just such an invasion.
UPDATE: June 1, 2011
Well, whaddya know. Sheriff Clarence Dupnik himself actually stepped out in front of the microphones in an editorial meeting with the Arizona Daily Star to speak for his office and his officers yesterday. So what did he have to say?
Essentially, as follows:
1. The S.W.A.T. raid on the Guerena home stemmed from a 20-month probe.
2. The Pima County Sheriff's department had been investigating Jose Guerena as part of a major drug and homicide investigation.
3. Ongoing surveillance had been part of that investigation.
Okay-y-y. Let's think about that. Previously released documents have stated that it looked like something pretty hinky may have been going on within the family, but not specifically with Jose Guerena. However, he's got a brother and a mother in the mix; Hell, yeah, he's going to be under surveillance. Dupnik also mentioned "informants"...who may or may not be reliable. Police informants may have their own reasons for fingering an ex-Marine they don't like or reasons to tell the cops what they think they want to hear--you know, to save their own usually none too clean hides.
So, info from information from informants is automatically suspect. The detectives know that, of course, so they add surveillance.
All of that makes sense.
However, what the Sheriff did not say is equally important. He did not say, most likely because he could not say, that the Department found one shred of evidence in the Guerena home pointing to anyt form of illicit activity. They've had time to more than track down every bank transaction and every computer maneuver Jose ever made--and you can bet your bottom dollar, if they'd found anything to get themselves off the hook, we'd be hearing about it.
None of this "justification for the raid" by Dupnik mitigates the horror of the way the shooting went down, of course--all that does (at best) is say, "Nah, we didn't get the wrong house. We really did go after this man."
At this stage, that is a point I'm willing to concede...but that does absolutely nothing to justify the shooting.
UPDATE: June 2, 2011
KVOA has now obtained a purported copy of the "blanket" Search Warrant the S.W.A.T. team was supposedly serving. It doesn't prove a great deal, since this copy has been neither dated nor signed by the Judge who authorized it. In some ways, it raises questions almost as effectively as does Obama's birth certficate. A couple of paragraphs are redacted, which was done to "protect the informant"--according to Sheriff Dupnik, who also says the informant's life is now "definitely going to be in danger."
Guess the life of one "mere" informant must be of less value than trying to get the public heat off the Department....
Curiously, this paperwork references five separate "arrests for five felony counts" on Jose Guerena in the past--with "no convictions annotated on the record". But I don't recall any previous mention (do you?) of any police contacts prior to this.
However, the paperwork justification provides a lot of information of various members of the Guerena family. If the warrant copy is authentic (which it may well be), then it seems clear that law enforcement did have probable cause to serve a search warrant at the Guerena home. Just not in the badly botched way that it was done, i.e. "executed until proven guilty".
The KVOA report also mentions a statement by a Sheriff's Dept. spokesman who claims S.W.A.T. told Guerena to come out, both in English and in Spanish, and that he refused. Doesn't look (or sound) that way in the video, however. Looks more like the lead officer simply sort of wandered in nonchalantly...and started shooting.
Anyway, the Geurena family's attorney has promised to have more to say after he completes his own investigation. In the meantime, here's the link to the purported warrant:
UPDATE: June 4, 2011
Today's article in the Arizona Daily Star on the Guerena case was by Jamar Younger, not Fernanda Echavarri (who broke the story initially). A few quotes with (my) commentary:
The SWAT officers who shot and kiled a man while serving a search warrant lat month gave at least two commands for someone to open the door before knocking it open, according to documents released Friday.
In the video (embedded above) you can hear an officer yelling something, but the words are (for me, anyway) impossible to make out. The Sheriff's Department has said Guerena, when seen (and killed) was "down a long hallway". Which indicates the master bedroom, from which he was coming, was at the far end of the house--a rather common floor plan arrangement. He'd just been rousted from a dead sleep after a twelve-hour night shift at the mine. The officers may believe he understood what they were saying...but it seems highly doubtful he could have done so under the circumstances.
...they saw what they thought were muzzle flashes from his gun.
Since it's been established that Jose Guerena never fired a round, the officers were either mistaken--or they're flat-out lying to protect themselves after the fact.
Officer Hector Iglesias told detectives he fire his handgun after he saw the muzzle flashes from Guerena's rifle, documents state....
...Iglecias, of the Sahuarita Police Department, said he saw an object on the right side of Gurenea's body before he saw the muzzle flashes.
Whoa. Whether he realizes it or not, Officer Iglesias just put the lie to the whole "he pointed his rifle at us" police defense. Here's why:
1. We already know there were no muzzle flashes. There may have been light flashes coming from another room into the hallway--Vanessa Guerena scurrying into the bedroom closet with her son, perhaps, maybe reflecting window sunlight from a mirror mounted on that close door as she pulled the door closed.
2. "An object on the right side"--Iglesias didn't even know what the object might be. He assumed it to be a rifle, assumed he was being shot at, and emptied his handgun--or started to, fired 9 or 10 rounds until it jammed, according to his own statement. Talk about a nasty illustration of the word "assume".
3. Well, I "assume" an "object on the right side" (which turned out to be the AR-15) was simply being carried one-handed, not in any way a hardcore combat kill-the-cops attempt by Jose. If you think in military terms (as any veteran does), you've got both hands on that weapon if you believe you're going to be using it momentarily. But the other hand was busy. From Vanessa's 911 call, we already know Jose was holding his cell phone in his left hand.
From the officer's own report, it sounds like S.W.A.T. not only gunned down a man in his own home...but they gunned down a man who had not pointed his weapon in their direction.
He and other officers saw splinters coming off the doorway during the shooting.
Splinters? Or did the peripheral vision of the civilian-level-frightened officers record bouncing, ejected shell casings from their own weapons as splinters? Hopefully, someone (such as the Guerena family attorney) has inspected and photographed that door casing. If there is no splintering obviously caused by their own wild shooting, it would have to be a case of "seeing what they feared and therefore expected to see". Or...could the officers have been shooting that wildly? (Don't answer that; the question is rhetorical.)
Deputy Kenneth Walsh was the deputy who gave the commands for Guerena to come out of his house....
...The order to open the door came during his third set of commands, he said.
It took at least a minute to issue the commands before they knocked down the door.
At least a minute? Sorry, Deputy. The entire S.W.A.T. video, beginning as the van is pulling into the driveway and ending after the last shot is fired, is only 54 seconds long.
Another SWAT team member Deputy Christopher Garcia, told investigators he heard Guerena yell something as he came toward the SWAT team holding the rifle.
Garcia began firing when Guerena approached them.
Uh-huh. First reports had it that the officers knew exactly what Guerena said. Now the official version admits that Garcia, at least, only heard him yell "something". Here are a few examples of what he may have yelled:
"Hold yer water! I'm coming! Do you mind if I get my pants on first?!"
"Who the Hell are you guys?"
"What do you want?"
"Hold your fire!"
"Vani, call 9-1-1-!"
There is one person who may know exactly what he yelled, of course. That would be Vanessa Guerena--who had her own cell phone glued to her ear as her husband uttered his last words. Whether or not she can recall those words after the trauma of that morning, one other key person may just possibly know at this point...and that would be the Guerena family attorney.
Most disturbing is Deputy Garcia's statement that he fired at Guerena when Guerena approached the officers. Yep. They told him to come out, he does what they ask, and.... Let's see now, I'll just yell at this guy, get him to come talk to me, and then when he does--Bang! Bang! Bang!
I agree; that last observation comes across a bit "inflammatory". Then again, this entire case is inflammatory all by itself, and it's not showing any sign of cooling down any time soon.
UPDATE: June 7, 2011
Autopsy findings for Jose Guerena have now been made available to the public. Here are excerpts from two articles.
Article #1: A kgun9.com piece titled SWAT raid autopsy: Guerena died quickly from massive blood loss, by Forrest Carr and Jeanine Waddell, states:
The Pima County Medical Examiner told KGUN9 News Monday afternoon that even if medics had reached Jose Guerena immediately, they probably could not have saved him.
On Monday morning the M.E's office released Guerena's official autopsy report. The 26-year-old former U.S. Marine was shot to death in a SWAT raid on May 5. The report confirms what a spokesman previously said to KGUN9 News by phone, that Guerena's body had 22 bullet entrance wounds. The report also shows that Guerena had many exit wounds as well. There were no drugs in his system.
The report goes on to note in detail the entrance location and trajectory of each wound, most of which were on the victim's extremities. The medical examiner listed, in order, these entrance wounds:
-- one wound to the head, which the report describes as a graze;
-- one wound to the right upper chest;
-- one to the right lower chest;
-- one to the left upper abdomen;
-- three to the right upper arm;
-- one to the right elbow;
-- one to the right hand;
-- one to the left upper arm;
-- one to the left elbow;
-- one to the left forearm;
-- one to the left hand;
-- two to the right thigh;
-- one to the right calf,
-- one to the right foot;
-- four to the left thigh;
-- and one to the left foot.The report also notes that the body shows "no evidence of medical intervention."
Article #2: The kold.com headline (by reporter Mark Stine) reads Documents: SWAT timed raid in attempt to avoid children in Guerena's home observes:
...On Friday, the Pima County Sheriff's Department released photos and interviews from after the shootings took place.
"....I was scared. I, I believe my life was in, in danger," said Deputy Christopher Garcia told investigators after the shooting. "And the other operators that were also there, that their lives were in danger as well.
"As soon as I saw the male subject come out from that direction, holding the rifle, he yelled something."
In the interviews, several of these deputies describe hearing Guerena say, "I got something for you."
Officer Jake Shumate said Guerena "raised the rifle and pointed it towards us and then fired multiple shots."
It's been firmly established, of course, that Jose Guerena never fired a shot. This same article (as noted in the Comments by ConcernedCitizen) mentions that the raiders intended their action to take place when both Guerena children were in school. But their surveillance (if any) failed to observe that one child did not go to school that day, and there's no indication the Sheriff's Department had any idea whatsoever that Jose worked a night shift mine job. Seems like a pretty good chance the detectives thought his "absences" during the dark hours were spend running around hither, thither, and yon--doing drug deals, doncha know.
Assume, assume, assume.
UPDATE: July 8, 2011
Thought this was quieting down, did you? That the heat was off, things were settling, ho-hum?
No way, Jose. Guerena, that is. You will not be forgotten, and this is not over.
In fact, this fandango just kicked up a notch. We're in the YouTube musical venue now, and whether the Dupnik dudes know it or not, that's a whole 'nother world. When I just watched Lindy's recording titled No Knock Raid, I was viewer #37, 862. It's well done, and the Jose Guerena S.W.A.T. helmet cam video is included at the end of it.
BUT, FAIR WARNING: THIS VIDEO IS BOTH GRIM AND GRAPHIC. NOT RECOMMENDED FOR ANYONE PRONE TO NIGHTMARES.
No Knock Raid
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1 yr ago this morning a patriot was murdered while standing between the threat of armed home invaders and his family.
The murderers have been identified but have not been held to account.
They are among us and they were and are supported by both Republicans and Democrats. Evil knows no boundaries.
As the young father and husband drew his last breath while bleeding out in his floor like an animal left to die, he no doubt was summoning any remaining strength in a vain attempt to shield his wife and child huddling in the bedroom. The last thing he remembered was his wife screaming as the gunmen dragged her outside.
We are all Jose Guerena.
Brian Miller
^ Unapologetically stolen from Mr. Millers Facebook site. Brian Miller was also made a victim of The Jose Guerena atrocity when he lost his political position for speaking the truth about the incident.
We are all Brian Miller
Amen.
R.I.P.
One year ago.Today.
(*Sigh*) Agreed...but will any of the Guerena family move, cash on hand or no? As a group, they seem more inclined to stand their ground as best they can.
Were I one of the family members who had a bit of influence with the others, I'd be proposing a shift. And I'm not just talking here; there was a time when (in another state, many years ago) when the local cops "got attitude" on Pam and me (80% me, 20% Pam). A young man attempted to frame me after I'd (a) taken him in off the street and then (b) three weeks later, booted him back out for stealing from us.
The officers (some of them) thought they had reason and a way to arrest and jail me. When they were proven wrong on both counts, it became a matter of them getting ready to pull a, yes, search warrant. I had my own passive income at the time, but rode a motorcycle as my primary source of transportation. To them, I "looked like" an a-hole biker with no visible means of support.
Had they simply asked, I could have shown them bank statements on which were listed regular monthly commission payment deposits from my Sub S Corp's parent company for--at that time--twelve nonstop years. But of course, doing something that simple never occurred to them.
They would have found nothing, but we had absolutely zero doubt that if they did not find anything, they had at least a dime bag or two they could drop on the spot.
-----------------
Anyway, I'll add one more hope to the hope kettle: Let's ALSO hope whoever wins the GOP nomination for Pima County Sheriff this year can send Dupnik into retirement on Election Day. THAT could make all the difference in the world.
Well Ghost, seems the answer was there all along,,, By my reckoning the judge that signed the original search warrant was the same judge who sealed it five days after the killing,,,seems par for the course in Pima, but one hell of a conflict of interest most anywhere else,,, and I notice that the document that the media shows now does not have her [the judges] name redacted, just whited out as if the search warrant was never signed or dated…
Today the Pima boys celebrated the upcoming anniversary of the Jose Guerena atrocity by pulling over one of his sister in laws after following her all day. Did it right in front of her lawyers office too. She had a bunch of kids with her and when the cops said they wanted to search the car she said no. So them sheriffs run right out and got a search warrant PDQ and seized that vehicle on the spot. Any bets which judge signed that warrant?
Harassment? Intimidation by those who are supposed to protect and serve? I could not make this crap up, check out; “Guerena family member has car seized” by KVOA News.
It appears to me that Tucson law enforcement is getting real desperate to make Jose into a bad guy. Hoping to break somebody. I just hope that Vanessa and her boys win their lawsuit so they can get outta Dodge before any more carnage heads their way.
Bambi: I don't have a lot recently but must confess that I could have missed something. I don't take the Airzona Star, and being so focused on November this year (i.e. on ousting Obama from office and helping a great candidate replace our Cochise County Recorder, who needs replacing), I've not made the online rounds on a regular basis, either.
We do know from PD releases that they continue to do everything they can to paint the Gurenas en masse as criminals per se.
Any more news on this? Or has it been successfully swept under the rug by the Pima County Killer Klowns?
Hm. Well, federal informants are automatically pretty suspect in my book. (Example: They did SUCH a nice job in the Fast & Furious fiasco.) And there's STILL nothing specific on Jose that I can see. But like you say, an attempt to confuse the two cases could be pretty much the entire motivation.
That, and keeping the heat off Deborah the Judge, back when?
Jim: Great line you have there about the good reporters all being focused on the Trayvon Martin case. Too true.
More "wait and see".
If I were a guessing man, I might guess the release occured now because all the 'good' reporters are focused on the Trayvon Martin case. You do have to wonder which news story draws more audience, a case that seemingly is about racial hatred, or a case that seemingly is about police mistakes.
yup, yup, I know, I weasel-worded that one didn't I?
Well pard, the way I read it is that they finally released JOSE’S search warrant and that the no-name judge is this Superior Court Judge Deborah Bernini.
I read most of the news reports about the recent arrests, as far as I know that warrant was never sealed. Why would they? Sealing a search warrant is not standard procedure – yet.
No man, they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes by confusing the two cases together. They had to release the warrant sooner or later, why not just before the Easter weekend.
If nothing else, this is the first time that they have admitted federal involvement – I.C.E. That alone is a potential game changer. Do you think Vanessa Guerena’s lawyers knew for sure the Feds were involved? This much quoted ICE informant [still unnamed in the article] has a lot of incriminating things to say. Apparently. So far I have been unable to locate the publicly released documents that the article claims to be quoting from and I am not happy about this state of affairs.
I could be wrong, wouldn’t be the first time, but here is hoping that a competent reporter takes a hold of this story soon and that a link to the entire search warrant is made available. Then we can know for sure.
I think our nation’s media could spare at least one good news investigator from the Trayvon Martin fiasco to cover this attempted whitewash/ desecration of a decent man’s memory and tell the truth. I think Jose Guerena deserves it. I think this nation deserves it.
Hmmm.... Trusting me to "make sense of it" might be asking a bit much. One thing is crystal clear, though: These reports (as noted by KVOA) STILL don't show one lick of evidence against Jose except that he was at one point "present" where there'd been a drug bust.
Obama voting "present" all the time as a state legislator sounds more criminal than that.
Besides which, the wrongful death claim doesn't stem from him being shot--but from them denying him medical assistance for more than an hour AFTER he was shot.
Don't see this moving the ball much one way or the other.
Should be the day before Good Friday, sorry, this poopada has got me cross eyed.
Talk about crap news reporting.
KVOA, the Sheriff’s mouthpiece, have released a one sided, slanted piece that I guess passes for journalism in certain parts of Pima AZ. I sure hope that this is not the only ‘news’ organization to report. Honestly, this excrement leaves more questions than answers, just a continuation of the cover up of the Jose Guerena atrocity. Fernanda Echavarri where are you? I leave it to you to take first shot on making sense of this one Ghost, but allow me to point out that this crap was released on Good Friday at 6:00pm, exactly 11 months after Jose was shot down and left to bleed out in his own hallway.
Here ya go my friend;
Posted: Apr 5, 2012 6:00 PM
Updated: Apr 5, 2012 6:47 PM
TUCSON - Superior Court Judge Deborah Bernini just released search warrants that had been sealed in the case related to the alleged Guerena drug trafficking organization.
Last month, three people allegedly involved in an organized drug trafficking ring were indicted: José Celaya, and his daughters Denise Ruiz and Pauline Guerena.
A special investigations unit has been looking into the organization since 2009. Last May, José Guerena was shot and killed by the Pima County Sheriff's SWAT team while they were serving a search warrant at his south side home.
The newly released documents give a vivid account of the comings and goings of the organization. The documents show Alejandro Guerena was the main focus of the surveillance operations. His wife Pauline was recently indicted. It was his brother José, a former Marine, who was killed last May.
The search warrant reveals that in 2009, José Guerena was a person of interest in an Immigration Customs Enforcement investigation. It says in April of that year, Guerena was inside a home when ICE agents moved in to arrest suspects connected to more than a 1,000 pounds of marijuana found in a stash house. Agents say Guerena was uncooperative but was never arrested or indicted in connection with the case.
The court document shows in October 2010, an informant went to the Pima County Sheriff's Department and provided information directly linking family members to drug trafficking.
The person admitted they were involved as well. The person even discussed different weights of marijuana and referred to marijuana transactions as accounts. This person says they were even involved in paying a kidnapping ransom due to drug debts.
Alejandro Guerena has not been arrested. Meanwhile, the family has filed a wrongful death suit against the Pima County Sheriff's Department.
Elenin: Thanks for this post in particular. I'd NOT seen Mr. A's article, and you're right. He definitely nailed it.
I am afraid you are absolutely right as regards Sharpton and his view of the world.The one and half million signatures to propel the Department of Justice to look into the incident in Florida are pertinent to the Jose Guerena atrocity however. At least two new petitions have been started by citizens concerned about the travesty in Tucson. Unfortunately, without the backing by the remainders of the Guerena family and a concerted effort, I think these are doomed to obscurity as well.
I went over to see if the Oathkeepers were planning any memorial for May 5.I Could not find anything, but these guys move quickly. They are focusing on their County Sheriff Project;
In Las Vegas, NV, on Jan 29-31, 2012, Over 100 Sheriffs & Peace Officers from across the country came together for the first ever CSPOA Convention to be educated on a wide variety of topics relevant to their powers, rights, Constitutional Duties and Oaths of Office.
They are having another event in So Cal, April 3rd. I imagine Sheriff Dubnik, his henchmen and their mishandling of a simple search warrant will be a topic of discussion.
It gladdens my heart to see the Oathkeepers continue in their righteous cause in such a logical manner.
A fella that goes by Elias Alias ran an interesting series of articles about Jose Guerena on the Oathkeeper site. You might have read his first one, titled “The Empire Strikes Home” the following are excerpts from part 5, dated 11-09-2011;
“Many Americans resented Oath Keepers making a stand against this insane policy of using SWAT for every-day police work. SWAT usage is now rampaging to the tune of between fifty thousand and seventy thousand home invasions each year in America. Many Americans felt that Jose Guerena was a “dirt bag”, that he may have been involved in – Oh My God! – Marijuana! Many people felt that Oath Keepers would tarnish our good reputation by defending Jose.
But what those nay-criers failed to realize, despite the fact that we stated it again and again before marching there, was the fact that we were intent upon exposing this insane policy of using SWAT professionals to serve routine warrants and the now-undeniable fact that America is turning into a damned-by-God military-police state in the name of a so-called “war on drugs” and a so-called “war on terror”
“The policy which murdered Jose Guerena most surely came down the pike from the idiocy of the Department of Homeland Security and a generally-wide-spread disavowal of everything this nation’s Constitution stands for.”
I say Mr. A just about nailed it.
Hey, if the victim is not African American, the good Reverend Al simply does not care.
Unredacted, that search warrant would also show the “He/She who shall be Nameless Judge” the best kept official secret in Tucson, so I’m not holding my breath..
The national outrage over the Trayvon Martin shooting in Sanford, Fla made me consider how there was comparatively little national coverage and then only briefly, concerning the shooting of Jose Guerena. I was not the only one who thought of the comparison. This article has popped up in a few places;
where-was-the-reverend-al-when-police-killed-hispanic-iraq-war-vet-jose-guerena.
Google that if you care to see content. I am avoiding the posting of direct links now.
I see what you're saying. Yes, the foot soldiers in the field could definitely have been set up / blindsided by their own superiors within this system. I do personally doubt that--in large part because it's been my experience that bumbling incompetence is quite capable of producing the most massive screwups all by itself.
But yes, it is possible, and yes, it will be interesting if/when we ever get to see the unredacted version of the search warrant.
Ghost – I am afraid you misinterpret me. The lapse in communication is undoubtedly my own so I will attempt to clarify. To quote; [another first]
“My rock bottom belief is that the honcho’s who organized that raid were fully aware” – The Honchos, the unnamed source, the man behind the curtain, NOT the men in the field. I have reason to believe that a federal agency, with the assistance of Detective Tisch who was NOT on the SWAT team, directed the Pima county LEO to Jose Guerena’s doorstep. I believe said agency conducted their own surveillance, had their own informants and that they knew Jose would be;
“1 – Sleeping, after a long night at the mines.”
“2 – Would answer the door armed because of the prior home invasion/murders that happened to other members of his extended family.”
“It appears [by the video] that they did not share this information with the SWAT team.”
The goat f##! at the door is self evident. What I DO believe is that the SWAT team was misinformed misused and misled.. Deep inside, those SWAT team officers have to be p----- at the way they were tooled.
I am not calling this atrocity an assassination per se, but if you pour gas on the floor and then drop a lit match, can you really act surprised when something awful happens?
If the search warrant is ever unredacted and open to public scrutiny, I think you will find information there to back up this claim of a federal agency calling the shots, so to speak.
Elenin: Political, definitely--but I could NEVER believe (as you DO) that the SWAT team knew Jose was home that morning. The SWAT video SCREAMS of nonchalance in every second of their flash-bang forced entry until the instant the first shot is fired. They did NOT approach the doorway (prior to that) showing ANY concern that they might be facing armed resistance from within.
And the absolute OH S**T! startle-response (beginning with the first round fired) is too genuine for me to conclude anything other than that they expected to go in and happily terrorize the home-alone little housewife mouse, Vanessa. As far as news reports have told us, remember, they had no reason to know that even the one boy was home with Mama.
COULD it have been a deliberate political assassination? Yes. Definitely. But it looks to me, at the end, more likely to have been a classic militarized police clusterf**k.
The events that allowed the Jose Guerena atrocity to occur were certainly political. The passing of the [anti]Patriot Acts that led to a judge accepting a questionable search warrant request and a Sherriff orchestrating a SWAT breach for suspected marijuana are all of a political nature. The Swat team was just the end of the line – tools.
My rock bottom belief is that the honcho’s who organized that raid were fully aware that Jose was;
1 – Sleeping, after a long night at the mines.
2 – Would answer the door armed because of the prior home invasion/murders that happened to other members of his extended family. It appears they did not share this information with the SWAT team.
The excuse as to why a SWAT team was used is so that evidence could not be destroyed. How much marijuana could someone possibly destroy in limited time? How much marijuana is worth the possible destruction of a human beings life? These are political questions. The supposed right to bear arms is another.
There were No drugs or paraphernalia found in the house. There were No traces of drugs found in Jose’s postmortem blood. The safety on his rifle was engaged. Yet there has been No reprimand of any kind to the perpetuators of this atrocity. Political? – you bet.
louromano: I agree; all you have to do is watch the video to realize those guys were in shock to find some actual "action" (if you can call it that) inside the Guerena home.
I'm not saying the shooters decided, "Hey, Jose's probably a Republican; let's shoot him." That's not the politics I'm talking about.
Rather, we have:
1. The general policies and procedures that led to a flash-bang door breaching by a SWAT team to deliver a simple search warrant in the first place. That speaks to the overall militarization of the police (not just in Tucson, but nationwide)--and the one force that is going to decide how that works in daily practice is the County Sheriff.
Who is an elected official, which makes it political by definition. At least one of the GOP candidates addresses that (search warrant practice) in his campaign platform.
2. The coverup is nothing BUT politics. Had this happened in conservative Republican Joe Arpaio's jurisdiction, you can bet Congressman Raoul Grijalva would have been screaming bloody murder (literally) all over the media, the media would have been joining right in, and President Obama would have been encouraging Eric Holder to investigate the "stupid cops" in Joe-country.
Political all the way...and for the long term, the only possible solution is also political.
I suppose anything is possible, but nothing that's been uncovered to date indicates his death was political per se. The coverup has been, obviously, but that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.
I keep coming back to my bedrock belief that the SWAT team didn't even know Jose was home when they blew the door.
If memory serves, Horne was elected in 2010 and gets 2 more years of "free ride" before facing reelection.
Yeah. That's right. I remember clearly now--I voted for the bugger.
Good points Ghost. Clarence’s arrogance and lack of respect to the Bill of Rights need to get out of law enforcement. Do you know if Az Attorney General Horne is up for reelection this year? His failure to do his duty and start an independent investigation into the Pima County whitewash of the shooting of Jose Guerena should be brought to the voters attention as well, imo.
Elenin, you're spot on as usual--but for a change, I have something constructive to offer, the ONE AND ONLY way folks like you and I (and other readers of this Hub) might actually be able to do some good.
First, a touch of recap:
1. We know that not one public official, Democrat or Republican, from Sheriff Dupnik himself all the way up to President Obama, will lift a finger to change the situation (or even very much to criticize it) in Pima County.
2. The linchpin of the entire problem is the Sheriff.
3. The Sheriff has been elected and then reelected for the past (get this) 30 straight years.
4. This year, he's running again.
Now, my point: What we CAN do is support whichever GOP nominee for Sheriff of Pima County gets the nomination this year. Dupnik, not unlike Congressman Raoul Grijalva, has always been considered unbeatable in the past--and yet Ruth McClung, a rocket scientist coming out of nowhere, would have beaten Grijalva in 2010 but for a touch of voter fraud.
This year, the right GOP candidate MIGHT actually have a chance of booting Dupnik out of office.
I've just now Googled around, looking at the GOP candidates. Found four of them so far (there may be others):
A. Vinson Holck.
B. Walt Setzer.
C. Terry Frederick
D. Chester Manning
My pick (were it the slightest bit up to me) would at this point be Walt Setzer. He's a 61 year old Vietnam vet with the right law enforcement chops and a YouTube video that reeks of sincerity. I believe if anyone can beat Dupnik, he can...and that if he becomes Sheriff, he'll transform the office for the better.
But ANY of them would be an improvement over what Pima has now.
I'll be watching...likely writing about the nominee a bit later in the year...and possibly proiding support in offline ways as well.
How long do they just keep turning the other cheek? I think 7 x 70 has been long surpassed.
Man, I just found out one of the women gave birth only 7 days ago. Pima’s finest/lowest continue to display exquisite timing in their attacks on this family.
Pictures of their mug shots were on the web within hours of the arrest. Many articles give the location of where Jose Guerena was shot down on Redwater Dr. [could the widow Guerena and her boys still be trying to live there?]. There is little doubt in my mind that this event was orchestrated for the media, if for no other reason than to allow some a-hole to spew the following in a comment “These people are known criminals and they are dangerous to our community. Jose Guerena was involved in criminal activity, Im glad justice was served on him by the SwatTeam, all those guys deserve medals for taking Guerena down!” and the like.
It has been said that if you say a lie long enough and loud enough that it eventually gets accepted as fact. The killing of Jose Guerena and the unconstitutional events that led up to it are an unfortunate truth. This latest event will give an excuse to some people to dismiss that truth, unfortunately.
I don't know, Elenin. Without being in their shoes (which I would not wish on myself for any reason), it's kind of hard to figure what sort of response (if any) might be worth making. If they do make one, we'll of course be rooting for them, but other than that...no clue.
Good to hear that you are on the rebound Ghost.
The lawyer[s] for the Guerena family have been very quiet lately, considering the initial outrage that this atrocity generated. Most people seem to be get outraged/ pissed off /upset when hearing about it for the first time, such as Traged 2 weeks ago. Do you think there is a positive way for the Guerena representatives to respond to these fresh implications and misrepresentations? May 5 is not that far off.
True on [*sighx2*].
Not to worry about me slipping out early. Chance of that is exactly zero. And surprisingly, I HAVE been taking it easy with this flu--relative to my usual pace, anyway.
Just read your Hub “2012 Presidential Campaign Issues : #21 : Salvaging the Personal Touch in Healthcare , Great that you received good, friendly medical attention, rotten that you were obligated to go get it in the first place. I might say take it easy but I know that would fall on deaf ears. So I will say take care. I do not want to go hunting for my eulogy money early. We need you here for quite a spell yet!
Influence; I believe that is the word all right. A judge , jurors, maybe one of the jurisdictions being sued from the pickup SWAT team are considering settling out of court and headlines like that would make them look bad, or,,,
(*SighX2*) They might be hoping to break one of the arrestees down [two were women of childbearing age] to testify that Jose was the big bad enforcer for the deadly Guerena Mob. Recall the less than truthful bulling they used on the widow Guerena.
(*Sigh*) If by "refused repeated requests" they mean "bled profusely in defiance", maybe.
No combat vet would "refuse repeated requests" per se. He'd either promptly comply or promptly start pulling the trigger.
The "Guerena Drug Trafficking Organization". Huh. Maybe Dupnik & Crew are doing poorly vis-a-vis Vanessa's $20 million claim? Figured to beef up the Demonization Program to influence a key decision making judge or two?
Three people, who knew Jose Guerena {one of them his sister in law} were arrested today, 3-8-12. No drugs were reported to be found. These arrests were reported throughout Arizona media, Google it if you care to – it’s not hard to find. Typical of the misinformation and smear tactics spread by the Pima County Sheriff’s Office and swallowed by the local news organizations to be delivered to an uninformed populace is the post from KVOA Tucson;
“3 arrests in Guerena Drug Trafficking Organization”
Guerena Drug Trafficking Organization – sounds dangerous doesn’t it? This is a new wrinkle in the slander campaign. I don’t recall hearing that one before, do you?
The first half of the article is entirely about the shooting and almost nothing about the arrests. It includes what I have to consider is a blatant lie; “According to the sheriff's department Guerena aimed an assault rifle at the SWAT team, they go on to say he ignored repeated requests to put the weapon down.”
Now I am not one to say that whoever posted the article made that up or that the Sheriffs representative lied to the reporter. All I know is that in the 7-8 seconds after they breached the door and began firing there was no time to repeatedly warn anyone to put down anything.
The timing of this is interesting. Hard to tell what the fallout will be, but I think it is safe to say that the efforts to demonize the former Marine and family man are ongoing.
Traged, stories like this make ALL of us feel sick.
stories like that makes me feel sick :(
It's worse than that, Elenin. I'm 99% certain the officers PLANTED Jose's rifle on his corpse. Yes, they "all" say he "pointed it at them". BUT in one of Vanessa's first interviews, she reported that, "...I never saw he had a gun except the one they put there." (Maybe paraphrased slightly, since I'm quoting from memory.)
At the time--the day of the murder, or close to it--it's unlikely Mrs. Guerena could have fabricated anything if she tried, and I trust her version of events.
However, you're ALMOST right about one thing: It's not "deviant" police behavior. The almost part? Like this: Law enforcement personnel (and others in various positions of authority) have been covering up their own murderous actions from time immemorial. The pendulum swings both ways--and in both dimensions, that of space as well as time. Only when AND/OR where the citizens exert SUPERIOR FORCE (either physically or in through the ballot box by removing badged offenders en masse) do the protect-and-serve folks EVER "leave it at that" long term.
It occurs to me that in addition to their other violations, the officers involved in the Jose Guerena atrocity should be charged with suppression of evidence. By denying paramedics on the scene to administer aid they assured the death of the only one who could contradict their claim that Guerena ‘pointed the gun at them’. Despicable, but none the less, effective.
There is reasonable cause to suspect that if paramedics had been allowed to save his life that Jose Guerena would give testimony that would conflict with the officer’s statements. When a rifle is crosswise to your vision the silhouette is relatively easy to make out. If the rifle is brought up to firing position, a barrel and an elbow sticking out is all that will be seen, hard to make out, especially when being perceived from bright sunlight into a dark hallway.
In review of the Jose Guerena atrocity I have come to the conclusion that this action was not the deviant police behavior that I originally considered it to be. I fear this may be the forerunner of what may become typical police behavior in these United States. Letting injured suspects bleed out while waiting for robots and distant doctors can solve a lot of problems for LEOs.
In a many ways the Pima SWAT team got it “right” - If getting it right is acting within the barest minimum of what the law requires;
This was NOT a No–Knock breach, which has certain rules that the Pima County Sheriff’s Office would rather not deal with. The SWAT team seems to have covered their ass on this one. Barely. They waited at least 8 seconds after they yelled at the door, turned their lights on in the bright sun and briefly sounded a funky siren before they burst through the front door to stare into a dark living room and hallway. Apparently this is lawfully acceptable nowadays and a model for the nation.
Afterwards the Law Enforcement Organizations demonize the victim[s] and become indignant if any in the press dare question their actions – standard operating procedure.
True, and more so under Obama than ever before. Remember in November!
When our government says "land of the free" they are only using the short form. The full sentence is "land of the free to do what we tell you to do".
Now THAT will be a breakthrough (uncovering the name of the no-name judge).
About Ron Paul. I appreciate his willingness to come out on the Jose Guerena case and even agree with him on a host of issues--but the only way he has a shot at becoming President is in fact through a third party candidacy like (only more effective than) Ron Perot's in 1992.
But even then, I do not consider him the least bit electable overall.
Would I vote for him over Obama, were he to become the GOP nominee? Absolutely.
Would I vote for him if he runs as a third party candidate? Not likely. I can see Brian Miller going that route; he and the mainstream Republican party have been uncomfortable with each other for quite some time now. But, despite respecting Brian greatly, I'm not him.
Ghost: There is a man currently running for the GOP nomination Now who would cover All those bases and perhaps a few more [the other nominee‘s consideration of war with Iran as just about a done deal is bothersome at the very least]. This man is the only national figure to publicly give mention to the atrocity that was the killing of Jose Guerena. He represents the best candidate to disrupt Obama’s power base, bring real thought to the presidential race and thereby deny Obama a second term. Brian Miller supports him passionately, Now.
This may well be the last time we have an opportunity to support a proven Constitutionally grounded candidate in our lifetimes. His belief in the checks and balances of our Constitutional Republic is why this man can be trusted with our affairs of state regardless of his personal opinions imho.
The mainstream media has gone beyond any nuance of objective reporting to disparage this man. The Washington Post has been almost laughable, for one. What should have been the rallying issue to give tea party members real teeth has been cast aside. Kool-Aid comes in many flavors I observe. Anybody But Obamma Except Ron Paul…humph.
On to other matters. Mike McDaniel from Confederate Yankee fame has started a new website on which Jose Guerena is a featured topic ;
https://statelymcdanielmanor.wordpress.com/2011/12
com/2011/12/30/the-jose-guerena-shooting-update-1-reprised/
Nice site, good information, but get this – in response to my comment he says that he Will discover the name of the noname judge and post it! I think he just might have the chops to pull it off.
Elenin: Thanks for covering my tail on this one--as you've so often done before. I did see a bit of TV coverage on the Safeway anniversary, but my attention was so much on the GOP primary campaign season...well, there's no excuse, really.
And, thanks for the congrats, too.
When it comes to consideration of both the Jose Guerena murder and the Presidential campaign, though, I know one man who--if he became President--could and would cover ALL the bases. From the top down, encouragement toward demilitarizing our law enforcement folks WOULD happen...if Brian Miller were the Chief Exec.
True, Brian is viewed in Tucson with the mixed emotions worthy of a Ron Paul, but you never know. He's still young enough. He might pop up a decade or two down the road and make it all the way to the White House. Stranger things have happened.
Heck, NOTHING could be stranger than the way we got Obama.
Ghost, the memorial of the ‘Safeway Massacre’ was a testament to the endurance of the souls spirit, strength and hope. The tragic event brought forth some of the best qualities of the human condition.
Taken from Amanda Lee Myers AP article;
Many wept at an afternoon event as two 10-year-olds remembered their best friend, Christina-Taylor Green, who was killed in the Jan. 8, 2011 shooting, along with five others.
“Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil," recited those gathered, including Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer.
Albert Pesqueira, assistant fire chief for the Northwest Fire District in Tucson said "I can still hear them,". "We'll never be the same. We'll never be normal again because of what occurred."
Gail Gardiner, 70, who lives about a mile away, tied a balloon Sunday that said, "Thinking of you," to a railing next to a memorial of the shooting that reads: "The Tucson Tragedy ... we shall never forget."
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords limped to the podium, and, after months of intensive speech therapy, recited the pledge with the audience, head held high and a smile on her face as she punched each word." ... with LIBERTY and JUSTICE for ALL!" the Democratic congresswoman shouted, almost defiantly.
I had to consider though, what about the Other Tucson tragedy? What about the Liberty and Justice denied Jose Guerena and his family?
Apparently I am not the only one;
http://www.republicmagazine.com/news/gabrielle-gif
gabrielle-giffords-shooting-remembered-but-who-remembers-jose-guerena.html
From the article by William Grigg;
“Michael Storie, the police union attorney representing the SWAT team members who murdered Guerena, has admitted that the warrant they were enforcing on May 5 “was not directed at any particular person, and Guerena’s home was not mentioned, but it was targeting whoever might be inside the residence” — which means that it was invalid, the raid was the legal and moral equivalent of a home invasion robbery, and the killing of Jose Guerena was criminal homicide at best, and capital murder at worst.”
“Loughner was known to have psychological problems, and was diagnosed as a psychotic after the shooting. He has been indicted on 49 federal charges arising from the shooting. Those responsible for killing Jose Guerena, by way of contrast, face neither criminal charges nor administrative sanctions for carrying out an illegal paramilitary raid that ended in the murder of Jose Guerena.”
Never forget indeed.
Belated congratulations on obtaining the top of Hubbers world food chain. You have worked hard for it and deserve it. Looking forward to more rewarding hubs.
Thanks, Judy. I missed the story on Mareana Helene Perez-Walden altogether, most likely because around the time of her murder I was scrambling to feed my family in easter Montana with almost zero time left over to watch even the local news.
I will say something because I am an american and we are not sapposed to live in fear of our police officers which we pay taxes for. This reminds me of the case of Mareana Helene Perez-Walden who lived in Lynnwood, washington at the Seattle Heights trailer court she reported crimes until her brutal murder in 1981, she was used for black market babies and forced to sign everything over -she was held captive in a forced marriage that means human slavery and the perpetraters well they could get S.W.A.T. on you with the blink of an eye and there were cops in that family and whats more? Its all on record, should there ever be a legal or real investigation. Her children were used for child slavery, body parts and life insurance. A couple were left to claim the inheritance by bloodline and thats sapposed to be controlled.
Well put. Of course, I don't need to prove murder in a court of law to possess an opinion...and in my opinion, letting Jose bleed to death by refusing him medical attention for more than an hour following the shooting was indeed murder. It would not be if the SWAT team truly believed the medics might be in mortal danger during that time, but THAT I do not believe for one split millisecond.
Or if they DID truly believe that, their incompetence and yes, cowardice, renders them entirely unfit to wear the uniform in the first place.
And I go back, as always, to the SWAT video itself. Those shooters did NOT show ANY evidence on camera of fearing the house they were entering before the first idjit went -BANG!-
Love your closing line, by the way: "...before the majority of us become Abel and thereby smote."
Amen, brother.
Murder is an extremely harsh word Ghost, and harder to legally prove.
Now murderous intent vs unexpected consequences, well that casts a much wider net.
Who is most exhibitive of murderous intent?
The SWAT team
Det. Tisch and his alphabet soup of federal buddies
The no name judge who swallowed Tisch’s swill and signed the search warrant
The signers of the [anti]Patriot Acts
The implementers of the [anti]Patriot Acts
The creators of the [anti]Patriot Acts
If the lowly grunt does wrong, punish him, but more importantly change what put him in the position to go wrong in the first place.
I guess that some will want to outlaw rocks and call that a solution. It won’t work. Murderous intent will still be a clear and present danger. Guns, marijuana, color [skin, eyes or hair] no matter, there will always be some excuse to label a segment of the populace ‘terrorists’ and bear the power of the government down. The Constitution of our founding fathers gave the ability to stop Cane before he struck. We need to return to that ability before the majority of us become Abel and thereby smote.
I doubt those days are over. They've ALWAYS been rare, throughout history and most likely from the time Cain split Abel's head with a rock.
I would like to think that the SWAT team wants to go public. They want to say “We were mushroomed, we were fed shit and kept in the dark. We were following orders and put in a situation where we killed an innocent man. We had no business being there in the first place. The whole thing was unnecessary.”
I would like to think that at least one SWAT team member would man up, go public and say “I apologize to the Guerena family, it should not have happened.”
Those days of standing up for your actions are over, it seems.
All good questions as usual. You go into a lot more depth than I do when it comes to curiosity regarding the motivations and emtions of the shooters. For the most part, I quite frankly don't CARE: It's the behavior that counts, and the behavior was inexcusable.
With one exception (though the exception also goes directly to behavior): Was the let-him-bleed decision made on the spot or part of an official (though definitely never committed to paper) policy? That much would be of some interest.
But murder is murder. The only distinction would be whether it was premeditated or otherwise--an important distinction, to be sure.
No man, The ADD is mine.
Puts an odd spin on it, doesn’t it. What difference would it make if a female SWAT member was involved? The problem is, on further review, I am afraid it might be only spin.. I have not seen that bit of information corroborated anywhere else, but Ol’ Mammoth wrote like it was common knowledge. Just have to put a question mark on that one for now. On the claim filed by Scileppi there is one officer named Chris, a name that could go either way. Later, I actually found a quote attributable to the name and the reporter referred to Chris as a ‘him’.
Consider the psyche of the SWAT team. If a women was on board then a certain sexual tension was probably present. A testosterone laden machismo from the boys and a determination not to be outdone exhibited by the woman. Perhaps Mammoth was referring to an effeminate characteristic in one of the ‘me too’ shooters. I do not know, so for now I will assume all the shooters were male heterosexuals.
More than one of the shooters had a Hispanic surname, it is not that farfetched to consider that one of them might have been some relation to Jose. Guerena was a local boy, served his Marine career at Yuma and Iraq. Many Deputies are local too. Similar schooling, similar ages, it is entirely likely that Jose and his killer’s paths had crossed more than once before, imo.
What was going thru their heads on that day, Thursday, May 5 2011?
It was announced on the Sunday night prior, that Osama Bin Laden had been brought to justice. Remember how the media slowly leaked the information out? First only words, then pictures and maps, snips from the video and finally {after May 5?} the whole video. How affected were Jose Guerena’s killers by this example of an assault team ‘doing it right?’
This was only four months after Jarad Loughner had killed 6 people and wounded 14 others in Pima County, under the protection of the Pima County’s Sheriff’s Office. The whole country watched as the president spoke at the memorial held at the U of A and many in the nation cheered Representative Gabrille Giffords recovery. How had this incident tweaked the institutional attitude of the Sheriff’s Office and did it affect the morale of its employees? Was there a siege mentality, an ‘us against them’ state of mind?
Was the decision not to offer medical aid and keeping paramedics from doing their jobs made in advance? In case any civilian got shot is there a policy that they should be left to bleed out?
What was going thru their heads? We know what was going thru Jose Guerenas.
No, I had not picked up on one of the SWAT shooters being female--nor do I recall any of the names of the team (when they were made public) sounding female.
I should pay more attention.
Gmv – That is one cool site. I have seen that method used before but do not recall seeing it used for something contemporary and important. I especially liked the quote from Ghost in there.
Ghost – Good comment you left on the Tucson Weekly. Needed to be said.
This one here goes pretty high on the must read list imho.
http://wayofthemammoth.com/?p=1270
Makes me want to be a writer darn it. Plus, new information. Did you pick up that one of the shooters was a female?
“The video shows a group of officers, apparently including a token lady-SWAT, (progressive Pima County is committed to gender-equality) rolling through a suburban neighborhood jamming to a song on the radio that may or may not be Third Eye Blind before pulling into a driveway, toggling the siren for eight seconds, gaggle-fucking up to the front door, disregarding any pretense of a stack, announcing their arrival in voices supposedly loud enough to be heard by a sleeping man in an upstairs bedroom but that were barely audible twenty feet away at the van from which the whole scene was being filmed, barely pausing before breeching the door and blindly magazine-dumping into the home’s interior. (Notice Lady-SWAT ambling up to the doorway a little late, then firing above the head of the guy in front of her. Another officer to the left of the frame initially starts to run away but then apparently perceiving that they aren’t receiving any fire, moves up and, completely shielding himself behind a teammate, rests his right arm on the man’s shoulder so he can fire one-handed into the darkness, obviously neither seeing nor aiming at anything but determined not to be left out.)”
Mammoth almost nails it here;
“The Guerena incident is so disturbing because it represents the last thing that should ever happen in America: the extra-legal execution of a man in his living room by government agents.”
Elenin: A great article indeed. So good, in fact, that I signed up at the Tucson Weekly so I could leave a comment. Figure the more networking on this the better.
Also loved the comment (at the Tucson Weekly) by the reader who said he'd been a staunch Dupnik supporter in the past but would never vote for him again.
gmv: Thanks for this link also. Good to see new outlets are continuing to pick up on this story.
Checking up on Brian Miller I found this great article in the Tucson Weekly;
http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tucson/tactical-terror
.com/tucson/tactical-terror/Content?oid=3184979
Tactical Terror
More than six months have passed since Jose Guerena was shot 22 times by a Pima County SWAT team—raising troubling questions about military-style police actions
by Tim Vanderpool
written Nov. 24, it predates Meyer’s AP article by 3 days.
Vanderpool is local and has an interesting view of the atrocity. He dances quite well around the No Name judge issue, but I suppose he probably knows. There really aren’t that many judges in Pima who wield the rubber stamp instead of a gavel.
Richard Mack and Mike McDaniel are interviewed and quoted extensively. An interview with Brian Miller makes up part of the 6 month update as well. Mr. Miller has not backed up a bit, check this quote "If it wasn't murder at the end of those 72 shots, an hour and 17 minutes later, when they didn't give Jose Guerena medical support—yeah, that's murder.”
Interesting idea, but I don't think so. Dupnik is deeply entrenched; any opponent would need to have some years of employment in law enforcement to have a realistic chance of beating him.
Plus, I don't see Brian as wanting to subject himself to that.
How does Sheriff Brian Miller sound ?
Elenin: That's awesome. Yahoo News got nearly as many COMMENTS as this Hub has (to date) gotten VIEWS.
I don't have any great ideas where to point the folks for justice--but I do know how to rectify the situation for the future: Vote Sheriff Clarence Dupnik out of office. A solid, conservative candidate (even in liberal Tucson) running on a REMEMBER JOSE GUERENA platform would an awesome thing to consider.
The people interested in taking action could help with:
1. Finding the candidate.
2. Funding the candidate.
3. Helping to spread the word ever more widely.
Ghost, the article by AMANDA LEE MYERS, ‘SWAT Team's Shooting of Marine Causes Outrage’, made it over to Yahoo News. Get this - 21,223 comments. AOL, Gawker and many others also had a big reaction. People are plenty upset about the atrocity that is the shooting of Jose Guerena. Where to point them for justice, that is the question.
Thanks for the heads up on the Huff Post article. More than any other story, this one has unified left and right wing writers.
Actually, I HAVE seen the Ortiz name turn up before. I'm thinking it may not be all that far off base. Could be his mother was married to an Ortiz for a while or some such.
As you say, the main thing is: Let the truth be told.
The reporter, Amanda Lee Myers from the Associated Press did a fair job of describing the facts of the case , imo.
She had some good quotes from co-workers at the Azarco mine and fellow veterans that served with Jose overseas. All quoted spoke highly of Jose Guerena’s integrity and work ethic, none believed that he was an evil man worthy of persecution. Amanda Lee also had her numbers correct, 71 bullets fired, 22 entrance wounds, ect. The only thing she got wrong is a whopper. She names the victim here as Jose Guerena Ortiz ???
We have followed this police action since May and I do not recall this confusion on names coming up before. Do you Ghost?
To study this case is also to study the media that reports it. I have seen some fluky things but this one really caught my attention. This article was picked up by at least 25 real news organizations and growing as I write. Comments about this atrocity are once again abundant. Ortiz? I looked over the claim filed by the family’s law firm, no Ortiz there. Interesting that Jose’s father is named as Alejandro Guerena Inzunza, also interesting that he wants no part of the claim filed. To lose a son like that,,, gotta be hard.
I thank this AP reporter for getting the word out. Let the truth be told!
I caught a article on Huffington Post about the Jose Guerena atrocity released yesterday, Sunday, 11-27.
You're certainly not alone in being fired up by this case; welcome to the club. This page once had more than 4,000 views in a single day, most of us either steamed or appropriately spooked or both.
That said, when you refer to what government is "allowed to do with no backlash at all", you touch on a most important point: If government is to be held accountable, it can ony be by We the People. And in this specific geographical location, the People have continually returned the same ultra-liberal, Progressive, and thoroughly monstrous Sheriff to local power.
The lawman in charge of Pima County, Sheriff Lawrence Dupnik, is the same fellow who spewed vitriol all over the mass shooting spree by madman Jared Loughner in January (2011). When Loughner gunned killed six and wounded 19 in Tucson, the very same town where this S.W.A.T. travesty took place 4 months later, Dupnik openly and loudly blamed us "right wingers" for his (Loughner's) predilection to violence.
[This was the shooting in which Democrat Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords took a 9mm bullet THROUGH the head...and survived. Tough girl.]
Even when it was later proven that Loughner had never paid any attention, ever, to right wing propaganda--but did have a couple of far LEFT wing tomes in his possession--Dupnik kept hate-spouting instead of law-enforcing.
And yet liberal Tucson (so far at least) keeps voting for him.
On a wider scale, i.e. nationally, We the People have (in the past) compounded the error of letting George W. Bush install the Patriot Act--which eroded our freedoms considerably--by jumping off the cliff like a pack of lemmings in 2008. That is, by electing Barack Obama to be President, thus ensuring the long-continuing militarization of the police, explosively bigger and bigger government at the expense of the individual, etc.
This CAN be corrected so that the future is less bleak than the present, but if it's to Be it's up to We. The correction began with the 2010 elections. We the People did well in electing a sizeable slate of truly conservative freshman Representatives to the House and in a number of other (local) areas as well.
Will the correction process continue?
That depends entirely on what we do politically in the coming year.
Remember in November 2012.
I am now speechless and boiling mad. It amazes me still to see what the different branches of the government are allowed to do with seemingly no backlash at all, but if someone did the same to them, they would end up in prison for the rest of their life or worse yet, executed.
Linda, we've not yet heard of Vanessa being recompensed--but at last word, she's got a $20 million claim filed against the various culprits. How it will all end up is yet to be determined.
OMG. I am almost speechless after reading this. Having been offline for most of the summer this had totally escaped me until now. I am seething. One question. Was his wife ever recompensed in any way at all?? There are a lot of horrendous things going on right now, but this is the most horrid thing I have read in a long time. I know it is months past, but I feel so badly for his wife and son. Great job in reporting all this Ghost.
Thanks, Elenin. Awesome work.
To our other readers: I highly recommend the lower (2nd) link in Elenin's post (above). The photos alone should inflame any thinking jury.
Apparently the Guerena family has changed or added lawyers. Nov. 3 2011
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/11/03/41176.htm
/2011/11/03/41176.htm
That is the only link that I could find that mentions it, other than 2 sites that quoted this one, word for word.
The new lawyer mentioned as representing the family is Patrick Broom with Haralson Miller of Tucson. Mr. Broom has what seems to be serious credibility with the Bar. In addition to many other accomplishments, in 1990 he received the pro bono lawyer of the year award in Tucson.
I then found the PDF file of the case filed Aug. 9th for the Guerena family BY Haralson Miller and friends, including Mr. Broom. Many names are on their masthead, but I saw no Scileppi. Yet Scileppi has been mentioned as representing the family by local media only days ago and did sign the bottom of this claim.
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kold/web/Notice%20o
kold/web/Notice%20of%20Claim%20-%20Guerena.pdf
Ghost, this claim is pure gold when it comes to understanding what this case is about in condensed form. I guess they had to let the judge slide, but they really bit into Det. Tisch and his submission of false evidence to the judge in order to get the bogus search warrant. Good to see. The deadly bumbling by the SWAT team, the denial of medical care, it’s all there and more.
Happy belated B-day, Buddy. All the best to you and many more.
jkromko: Thanks for posting your INVITATION FOR THOSE INTERESTED IN MARCHING TO HONOR JOSE GUERENA on Nov. 6, including your email address: jkromko@dakotacom.net
I got jammed up with personal business and also accidentally deleted the email that had your phone #. My bad, definitely. Best wishes for the parade, all the way.
On Sunday, Nov,6, Tucson holds a very large parade the "Day of the Dead" to honor those who have died.
A group of us will be marching with pictures of Jose Guerena - Never Forget.
Info: jkromko@dakotacom.net
Not in Sheriff Babeu's Pinal County, they won't. Now, had the bust taken place in Pima....
A major ‘drug’ bust in Pinal county, 70 arrested
http://www.ticklethewire.com/2011/10/31/dea-ice-an
dea-ice-and-ariz-police-bust-70-linked-to-cartel-that-provides-65-of-drugs-to-u-s/
Want to bet that the various LEO’s, federal, state and county, will try to implicate Jose Guerena in this?
Elenin, I absolutely disagree about the pro-LEO Pima County slant. That is, I just don't see it.
"Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik had a judge seal the search warrants as well as the documents showing what items were seized from the home, and later chastised the press for wanting to know the details of the case."
A Sheriff chewing out reporters for doing their job? How is that a pro-LEO mention?
Death is identified as "gunfire from a botched SWAT assault." Pro-LEO? Don't see it.
Note: I'd prefer you don't fire up a rebuttal on that; we could kick that can back and forth all day. Most likely, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on Wiki.
I don't have a whole lot of trouble imagining what I'd look like after (as you say) a month of sleeping on the hard. Haven't done that specifically, but close enough. And my wife was homeless for 2 years before we met. And we still have no flush toilets or showers in the house I built. (Though that should be rectified by next spring sometime after only 3 years without.)
51 arrested now. It was inevitable to me that the protesters would be eventually co-opted by homeless. I do not refer to the just out of a job and temporarily displaced, but the mentally ill, really bad off cases. This is not a sit-in, this is a camp. Occupy, get it. They have a communal kitchen and the word gets out. The homeless are hungry, so naturally they will gather in the area, especially at meal times. At first it’s cool, then OWS somehow becomes responsible for their behavior. Sanitation becomes an issue.
The right to grievance does not preclude being responsible to a cities population of derelicts. Said city should in fact feel ashamed, as a segment of their population has been shown to be so needy and uncared for. Instead some media will try to paint the true protestors [] as derelicts themselves and the police will be excused by said media for treating them accordingly. Homeless as agent provocateur.
Imagine what you or I would look like after spending a month of sleeping on the hard. Derelictic?
It’s Cold in October pert near anywhere in this country. At least the Arabs had the sense to have theirs in the Spring.
Can’t be too comfortable a situation. Not to mention the police. At Night. When the cameras are off.
There’s some trixsters amidst the martyrs though. The fellas over at the Yip ranch will make a play sooner or later. Calling Bank of America on their new fee was a decent start, imo. Abbie’s gone and Jerry’s selling OWS tee shirts, last I heard, so it’s time to see what the new fellas can stir up with today’s tech.
Maybe some good will come out of this OWS. Maybe it’s just a diversion or worse. Maybe it’s a planted powder keg that after explosion will become the excuse for more encroachment on the Constitution, similar to the way that 911 was used to pass the [anti]Patriot Acts. Time will only tell.
One thing for sure, O cannot go on forever as it is now.
I have been watching the Wikipedia site about Jose Guerena for some months now and have a problem with it. Sure, all the facts are pretty much there, but the /slant/ is pro LEO Pima County, imo. It is subtle, but it is there. Since reviewing so many diverse articles about the atrocity I have become more aware of the slant of media sources and the tricks that some of those sources use. Months ago I had a mind to take that Wik stub apart, line by line and show this slant, but I am slow and time is short.
Elenin: Keep on dot-connection.
I've watched that particular Simpsons episode a number of times.
30 arrested at OSan Diego this morning.
To say it ain’t gonna be pretty would be true. To say it’s ugly and getting uglier would be truer.
Starting to connect some dots, Ghost.
Jose Guerena, killed by a SWAT team. The excuse for the warrant, marijuana
Occupy WS, SD, Oakland, et al; The #1 complaint, abuse of capitalism.
Why was marijuana outlawed in the first place? Capitalism and racism, by my research.
Reminds me of a ‘Simpsons’ episode where Mr. Burns [the evil capitalist] has designed a machine to block out the sun over Springfield [where the Simpsons abide] and holds the town ransom.
What right does any man or government have to deny its people, that which God provides?
Certainly not a government that claims to represent The Land of the Free. Under God.
Still connecting.
Very interesting. Two-time, two-time, two-time.
What the--?!
I was going to comment on Peter’s Hub about his concern of possible outside agitation at OccupyWS when I came across that story of Scott Oleson. Stopped me dead in my clicks. The headline,,,Brian Miller? Anyway, if you will so indulge, I will post that comment here, I think it has bearing;
I am seriously starting to consider that provocateurs STARTED the OccupyWS movement in order to mislead angry people into an open ended, ultimately pointless protest, with no tangible goals obtainable or even coherently stated. The discrediting of the very idea of ANY future movement and the slandering of the legitimate issues that brought forth the movement into existence originally would be the provocateur’s real goal/accomplishment.
A devil advocate’s comment to be sure, but worth considering as events unfold, imho.
On a dare from a friend I googled something like - ‘2 tour Iraq marine vet police’. Pages and pages of Jose Guerena and Scott Oleson appeared, intermingling forever in the Ethernet. After some side tracks I found this;
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread765572/p
Thread 765572/pg1
United States Marine Corps. Sgt. Shamar Thomas from Roosevelt, NY went toe to toe with the New York Police Department. An activist in the Occupy Wall Street movement, Thomas voiced his opinions of the NYPD police brutality that had and has been plaguing the #OWS movement.
Thomas is a 24-year-old Marine Veteran (2 tours in Iraq), he currently plays amateur football and is in college.
Thomas comes from a long line of people who sacrifice for their country: Mother, Army Veteran (Iraq), Step father, Army, active duty (Afghanistan), Grand father, Air Force veteran (Vietnam), Great Grand Father Navy veteran (World War II).
Sgt Thomas is a big guy and righteously POed at police attacking unarmed civilians.
2,504,257 views on youtube. Sgt Thomas is perhaps the only identifiable face of OWS at this time.
A Brown, former Marine, two-time Iraq war veteran - dead
A White, former Marine, two-time Iraq war veteran – seriously injured
A Black, former Marine, two-time Iraq war veteran – Giving NYPD hell
Semper fidelis
Man.
So. Are the police targeting Marine veterans of Iraq nationwide? Talk about a conspiracy theory; even I have trouble figuring out how that would work. But....
Just noticed Jose Guerena has his own Wikepedia page, and it's a pretty good overall summary at that:
We are all Scott Olsen: Occupy Oakland #OWS
Posted Oct. 26, 2011, 8:53 p.m. EST by OccupyWallSt
Late last night, Scott Olsen, a former Marine, two-time Iraq war veteran, and member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, sustained a skull fracture after being shot in the head with a police projectile while peacefully participating in an Occupy Oakland march. He remains unconscious in critical condition at Oakland's Highland Hospital.
Gotta wonder if him and Jose crossed paths,Ghost.
Exactly my thoughts on Mr. Ventura getting properly inflamed as well, Ghost. The timing of Jessie’s proposal, right after Ron Paul’s mentioning of the massacre of Jose Guerena as a display of a government on the rampage, could be more than a coincidence. It must also be said that Mr. Ventura was on tour promoting a new book when he made the statement, which could also be more than a coincidence.
I confess to having been a dedicated Howard Stern fan, for a time, back in the day. Amidst a lot of tripe and plain silliness, serious subjects were often broached and some excellent interviews occurred. Stern’s interviews with Ventura stood out in my mind as especially compelling. The fact that a politician, so outspoken with his views on American Democracy could still get elected Governor, gave me hope. I do not think he is a rich man by Wall Street standards, but I’m pretty sure he has enough that he does not need to pander his opinions. This Ex-Navy Seal of the Vietnam era, is one politician that will take his Oath to the Constitution seriously, I believe.
The elections are over a year away and the ill warranted use of SWAT teams continues unabated. The quickest way to stop a great many of these raids would be to formally change the designation of marijuana on the Federal level – only now I discover that Mr. Paul, R-Texas and Mr. Franks, D-Maryland, jointly , introduced a bill, H.R. 2306, the Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act, on June 23 2011. Less than 8 weeks after the massacre of Jose Guerena, legislation was proposed that might have spared his life, had it been enacted prior.
You hear so little about ANY cooperation on the hill these days, let alone bipartisan, cosponsored bills.
Hardly any media on this. I admit, I’m kinda blown away. This sure ain’t no Ron Paul commercial, but the man is definitely gaining traction in my book.
http://theweek.com/article/index/216726/ron-paul-a
ron-paul-and-barney-franks-unusual-alliance-to-legalize-pot
Interesting. I'm not a big Jesse Ventura fan--not even during his wrestling days--but still interesting.
At least I can visualize Jesse getting sincerely ticked off about the Jose Guerena case (and others like it).
Speaking of the election;
Jesse Ventura, the former Minnesota Governor, has proposed to throw in as Ron Paul’s running mate. Interesting. I can easily imagine and possibly vote for that paring. Ron Paul is 76 years of age and the American public has a knee jerk reaction against age. The selection of a relatively youthful and charismatic vice presidential nominee {like Mr. Ventura} would be a huge boost for a legitimate run on the White House, imho. I imagine there would be an appropriate position for Brian Miller as well, if he so desired.
It's relevant, at least if you consider trouble on the street to be a trickle-down-from-the-top effect. Which I do.
Don't thing the sign Truman used is suitable, though. Would prefer to see one that sid,
"The Schmuck Stopped Here--But We Voted Him Out in 2012."
I hope you find this of interest and relevant:
Obama Not Implicated In California Medical Marijuana Crackdown, U.S. Attorney Claims
Huff Post, today 10 -26
My rant – Mr. Obama seems to be distancing himself, posthaste, exit stage left. No mention on Jay Leno last night either – not surprised. Who is left holding the bag? Why Eric Holder of course. Fast and Furious wasn’t enough. Fall guy or whipping boy or merely incompetent? Time to reevaluate the importance of the United States Attorney General, Mr. Obama and while you are it, see if you can find that little plaque that Mr. Truman used to keep on your desk. The one that said “The Buck Stops Here.”
Understood. I feel I understand it (the crime), but then the Dark Side is something I've always been able to grasp. Learning, however? Absolutely, especially learning how to take back our country so this sort of thing becomes a thing of the past.
From the writer of the Tall Tale series and so many other engaging Hubs? I will accept that, gladly and with heartfelt thanks. Just working with what is at hand and trying to get the implications of this terrible crime straight in my mind, providentially with more than a little guidance. There is still so much to understand and learn.
Elenin, this is one of the finest pieces of writing in any post you've ever made on this Hub. Good work.
Hey Fitz. The problem is that the issue, important as it is, is not an ‘electable’ issue. It is hard to get people to rally around LESS law and order in an election. I see only one clear and decisive way to curtail the unnecessary militarization of our police forces and that is the repeal of the [anti]Patriot Acts. The Acts are the cloak that these unconstitutional law enforcement organizations hide behind. For a candidate to call for that repeal he/she would need to have a set of serious proposals that would keep the guns trained on the true terrorists, while turning them away from the American public at large as they are now. This would be a major investment of time and resources on an issue that one’s opponent will try to dismiss, claiming that these proposals “show that you are ‘weak’ on terrorism”. How the War on Terror came to excuse the behavior that Pima County LEO exhibited on May 5th 2011, for a drummed up suspicion of marijuana, is something I do not think I will ever fully understand. Yet, that is the reality.
Which brings up the other big problem. The militarization of our domestic American police forces, [if I may steal a line from Fred’s buddy] is an UncomfortableTruth. You can bet that any thoughts about global warming fly out the window when a SWAT team comes thru the door, but the actuality is that there are over 250 SWAT raids EVERYDAY in this country. Something like 40,000 people SWATed last year and we all know that figure is climbing this year. I have heard and read about some of the raids and the pattern is fairly consistent and not very pretty. Who wants to think about a SWAT raid on their own house, their own animals being killed, their own wife and parents face down on the floor with a boot on their neck? Who will vote for the bastard that makes them consider such unpleasant thoughts?
Applause to Ron Paul for bringing forth this vital concern to the American public. The outrageousness of the actions by the Pima Sheriff’s office before, after and during the atrocity, plus the fact that Jose Guerena was found not to have anything to do with drugs, not even in his post mortem blood, make it a natural example to show the American public just how far our Constitutional rights have been eroded by the [anti]Patriot Acts.
Now that the cat is out of the bag so to speak, I think this issue will be brought up again in the form of a question posted to the candidates. How the candidates respond will be a key factor as to their fitness to lead this country, imho. As you said Jim, to see their mental process under pressure with a complex, unpopular issue will be instructive if nothing else.
Personally, I think the debates just got a lot more interesting.
That works. :)
Correction – ‘We are ALL Jose Guerena’, sorry Brian.
The frum blog was interesting,thanks G.
Jim: Good point; it really would require one to have complete creative control of the debate content. It's certainly not going to pop up in the formats we're seeing out there on the campaign trail at the moment.
Elenin: Yes, he did.
Absolutely Ghost, when Brian Miller wrote the words ‘WE are Jose Guerena’ he said it all.
Well now, if the questions are any good, what are the chances they could be offered up in a debate? Something like that would almost certainly put the pressure on for those involved to do the right thing with respect to Guerena's family, and at the same time provide us all some visibility into the mental processes these candidates would be using when they were elected President.
Got it. It was my friend Brian Miller who got the word to Ron Paul some months ago. Google "Ron Paul Fan Causes Headache for Local GOP" and the source article will pop right up.
Man, I do appreciate that guy!
Elenin: Good news indeed. Thank you, Ron Paul.
Jim: That's a most excellent idea. Can we perhaps arrange for you to host the Fitnezz Jim Debates? I'll bet with questions like that, the ratings would go through the roof. At least, if S.W.A.T. didn't blow through the door first.
It seems good news that a Presidential hopeful is aware of what happened.
It is unfair that innocents should be affected in a case like this, and that those involved in the actions should in some way in doing what they can to ensure that Guerena's children are not negatively affected by the loss of their father (assuming Mrs. Guerena is agreeable). Whether the County pays directly, or whether they somehow become involved in the support of raising the children to adulthood, the actions of their employees created this situation.
The long-term solution, attempting to come up with a way to ensure that these sort of situations do not happen again, might lead to a good question for a presidential debate. If all candidates have had opportunity to become aware of the incident, then the following might be good questions aimed at discovering their over all stance on roles and responsibilities with respect to the various levels of government involved. "How would you view this situation, given your oath as President to the Constitution? How would you view this situation on a personal level? And, what steps, if any, would you take to ensure that this sort of mistake is preventable in the future?"
Ghost32 Hub Author 3 weeks ago
Thanks, Elenin.
Neither death incurred while resisting oppression nor persecution for speaking one's mind are new things under the sun, of course. They have always been with us, and in at least some small form, every family on Earth is most likely able cite a few grim examples.
My own maternal grandfather was the head of the English Department of a State University in the 1930's and a follower of the Episcopalian faith. After class one day, a student asked him what he thought of the Immaculate Conception.
He replied forthrightly, saying he did not believe that was meant to be taken literally.
In the ensuing firestorm, he lost his position as head of the Department. Having tenure, he could not be fired, but for a man to whom education was pretty much everything, it must have been a mortifying situation.
A few years later, he died of cancer. No connection, of course.
Not that getting "shot down" in your profession is anything close to being literally gunned down in your own home, but the principle is the same: Disturb the powers that be and pay the price.
Or, alternatively, no good deed goes unpunished.
Shamefully, while the federal government continues to promote open borders for illegal border crossers, government at ALL levels turns a blind eye to the police-sanctioned murder of a patriot who was an American citizen.
But in case You the Bureaucrats have not noticed, please note: We the People have NOT forgotten.