How To Build A Survival Cabin On A Shoestring Budget
92The Missouri River Ranch Experience
In June of 1999, my wife and I were desperate to get a place of our own. My long established business was fading, bankruptcy was being held off by nothing but a long stick and a lot of determination, and my sisters wanted us and our several cats out of Mom's house ASAP.
We understood. Mom was 86 at the time. We were only there for a week, but that was more than long enough under the circumstances. Every day, I left my little redheaded honey to visit, watch soap operas, and nap while I searched for somewhere we could settle. The first place was on Fish Creek near Butte, and that story may be told in a future Hub. We THOUGHT it would be good at first. But soon, oh so soon, we were looking again.
That time, we bought a 20 acre parcel of land near Craig, Montana. For $500 down, we were in business, But what we had purchased was bare land, limited by covenants that mostly forbade goats and pigs while offering nothing in the way of shelter. We had very little cash to spare and no available credit. We did have creditorsgalore, but that's hardly the same thing...although one certainly does lead to the other,.
Fortunately, we moved onto the land in midsummer, on July 12, so we could get by for a while in the tent I had purchased in Missoula, Montana, prior to moving to Fish Creek. Hm. Winter would be right along, but the money would not. Still, we knew what to do.
Pam had a plan.
Put A Tuff Shed On Skids, She Said
We Build A 12 X 16 Castle
Pam knew about Tuff Sheds from her many years in Arizona. There were covenants on our new property--no mobile homes permitted, for example--but rough-and-ready cabins "on the mountain" were more usual than not. She was quite ill already, but her knowledge remained intact. We planned on a 12 by 16 foot cabin, a palatial total of 192 square feet. On skids.
Looking around in a 200-mile radius for the best deal, we stumbled on a true treasure: A retired man named Al built sheds as a sideline. Our shed WOULD have cost around $2,200 from a commercial shed dealer, plus delivery charges. Al would build us one on site for $1,750 with a house type slider window at one end, plus two small holes cut into the sides (into which I would put window glass and screens.).
His part would be to erect the shell only. All finish work would be mine to do.
The day it was completed, Pam watched from a chair under a shade tree next to our tent, roughly 100 yards from the bench I'd selected as our homesite. Just at dusk, Al and his helper packed up their tools and headed out. I carried my lady from her seat to our new home. When we met, she had been homeless for 2 1/2 years. As I carried her over the threshhold into a secure, four-walled enclosure that was OURS, she looked up at the ceiling and exclaimed,
"It's like a dream come true!"
Which it was, even though the work had just begun. Our living room couch came out of storage in Deer Lodge, hauled all the way to Craig in the back of our 1984 Chevy Citation with the hatchback up and ropes keeping it from bouncing out. That became Pam's bed.
The county dump became a source of many treasures, including a three foot piece of counter top that flanked the toilet...which in turn was made up of a five gallon pail with Pine Sol water in the bottom and a perfectly fitting standard toilet seat snapped to the top.
We opted for R-11 insulation and cheap paneling to finish the interior. Friends we had met before even selecting our land parcel donated a four-burner propane stove top, and I built a stand for it out of 2 x 4 lumber. Similar wood produced two tables, one of them permanently resting next to Pam's bed-couch for her things and to give her something to hold onto while getting out of bed.
Eventually, I got around to building a long table that stood along the same wall as Pam's couch. Bingo! A bed-table, with my sleeping pads now up off the cold wooden floor. Our old 2 x 12 waterbed frame became skirting for the cabin. A coat of paint was applied.
And then the wildfire hit.
It would take too long to tell the entire "fire story" here. Maybe in another Hub, later. For now, suffice it to say we saved nearly everything, and did it with nothing but a single shovel and a whole lotta action. Neighbors and professional firefighters saved the rest of the mountain, but we saved our own residence single-handed. Okay, double-handed.
It came so close to "getting us" that the entire south wall of the cabin was bowed several inches out of line by the heat. But everything held.
The Cabin Kitten As A Senior Cat In Colorado, 2008
The Boy Scouts Of America Have The Right Motto: Be Prepared!
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Despite The Fire, We Stayed Within Our Budget
With all of the finish work inside, including the purchase of a used propane refrigerator for $75 and a used propane furnace for $25, the money did add up. Still, Pam had managed to save every piece of new lumber when the fire encircled our place. We each did our part and, unbelievably, lost nothing other than a few less-than-essential things that were still in the tent at the time.
That did encourage me to finally take down the tent and roll it up for storage, though.
Our super-special Moe Key Man cat joined us as a young kitten just a few weeks after the fire. He loved the cabin as much as we did. As long as Pam and I are within a few feet of each other in a small, somewhat enclosed space, he is one happy camper.
Oh, you want to know how we cleaned up? During that first summer, we rigged a high framework attached to the front of the cabin, used the four-foot door and a mountain ridge for privacy, and showered under a ten gallon solar bag of sun-heated water.
By winter, however, I'd found a way-too-large bathtub--awfully big for the size of the cabin, but on sale in Great Falls for $79. Then after cutting a hole in the floor, I got some help from a neighboring teenager to dig a hole just east of the cabin into which we planted an old (free!) 55-gallon drum with many holes drilled through the sides and bottom. A drain pipe ran from the tub though the floor, out through a trench (which was then filled in with dirt) and into the drum.
To complete the drain field, we then simply lugged a LOT of round river rocks, dropping them into the drum until it was full to the brim. Replace the lid, and bingo! Instant gray water disposal. From that time forward, we could heat water on the stovetop and either fill dishpans in the tub for washing dishes...or fill the tub itself for a hot soak.
For a shower, we hung a solar bag full of toasty water from the ceiling. No chilly wind that way, and a WHOLE lot more privacy.
Pam and I have grandiose dreams for the future: We intend to build on 35 acres of land we're currently buying in southeastern Colorado, and we'd like to have around six thousand feet of workable space (counting garage and shop). But we lived in our 192 square foot cabin for three years, warm and cozy, with no complaints in heart or mind.
To wrap up, though: How did we do when it came to staying inside our original budget? In early July, before construction began, we had targeted a total of $3,000 and hoped we could have our new mountain cabin home all winter-ready for no more--or little more--than that. Despite the challenges of organizing paperwork in such a small space, we kept meticulous records.
We did more to the place as time went on and funds became available, but we were comfortable and ready to face cold weather by October 15. As of that date, our little cabin had cost us exactly $2,987.15. Thanks to several key treasures from area dumps and a few donations (like the stovetop) from new friends, we owned a survival cabin free and clear for under three thousand dollars.
Nor was it on skids by accident. Since it was not attached to the land, the developer who sold us the place could not claim it to be his when we left. Oh, he would have...except our neighbors on the next parcel helped me load our stuff out when the time came. In return, we gave them the cabin, which they promptly hooked up behind their pickup and towed over to their adjoining parcel.
Which made their survival cabin, obviously, an even better bargain than we had managed to obtain.
Thanks for reading,
Ghost32
And Of Course, There's Always The Traditional Log Cabin
Another Interesting Alternative
Update as of 10/05/09: My friend Red Elk, in addition to commenting regularly on this hub (see below), has for some time been involved in a fascinating experiment. He decided to build a Mini-Dome from scratch, using mostly salvaged materials and sweat equity. As of this writing, the project is close to completion and has received numerous compliments from those who've been fortunate to visit the little structure in person...and he's accomplished this with a total cash outlay of no more than $300!
Fortunately, Red Elk has been kind enough to give me permission to post a few of his photos here. He believes that the hard economic times we face today are nothing compared to hard times that are yet to come. With this in mind, he hopes that people will learn from both his successes and his mistakes. His overriding point is that you don't need a lot of money (or for that matter a lot of space) to produce a liveable structure in which to survive, that there are building materials available everywhere if we simply open our eyes and "see".
He began this endeavor with nothing but a single truckload of dirt dumped in a pile, added a good bit of hard work with a shovel, and went from there.
UPDATE, MARCH 22, 2010
Red Elk just forwarded three more photos of his mini-dome as it exists today. The difference between the earlier photos and the three he just forwarded (the bottom three, above), is truly remarkable. These are absolutely stunning.
Red Elk: October 15 Dome Photos
When I just no scanned this survival cabin hub prior to posting Red Elk's newest batch of min-dome photos, I noted that when the page was first written, Pam and I'd planned to eventually build on 35 acres in Colorado. Things change. We lost that piece before we could finish paying for it.
However, we've since built an earthbag-walled "border fort" in Arizona. We're pretty proud of it, and it's sturdy enough to withstand even an armed attack by Mexican drug cartel goons--if it comes to that, and it could. If you're curious, feel free to click on the link below.
In the meantime, here are the latest views from Red Elk. Enjoy!
Interior Shots of Sky's Dome, October 2010 Update
Dan Phillips of Texas
Update 11/06/10: Red Elk has done (and continues to do) inspiring work, both learning and teaching how to build survival domes for almost nothing. Today, he sent me a link to a YouTube video about Dan Phillips...who essentially builds homes from recyclable materials. While Dan doesn't get it done quite as cheaply as Red Elk does, he's right on the same page wtih me when it comes to money.
That is, he feels the cost of an "affordable" home should be in the $20,000 to $50,000 range. I've single-handedly built our Border Fort in southern Arizona at a cost that looks like it will finish out (including all plumbing and appliances) at right around $35,000--dead center in Dan's "affordable" range.
The Phillips homes are definitely more imaginative and innovative than anything I've ever built, though. Gotta give him that!
Red Elk's Mini-Domes: Update 2011
Vasso Skezas, after journeying to see these mini-marvels for himself, sent us a couple of photos with the following text:
I was/am amazed at the beauty and character of these domes. Very well put together for such a low budget, which is actually ideal for what they are supposed to be an example of ("back to the (our) future" living). I plan on building at least one dome like this back in Ithaca, NYwhere I live, and will post pics/tell of it as i go along. thank-you Ghost, and thank-you Red Elk for building these awesome examples of what can be done with what is available for next to nothing.The photos are posted below.
Vasso
A Second Off-Grid Home Building, This Time In Arizona
- How To Build A House Single Handed
Table of Contents with links to articles detailing the building of a "hybrid earthbag home" from bare land to the completed project. - How To Build A House For Under $20,000
An itemized listing of the expenses involved for the do-it-yourself homebuilder who thinks outside the box.
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Well folks, the sipelest of my 3 domes is into its 3ed winter. this is starting to show its' "age". Slowly being compressed by big snow build-ups. Still quit useabel / liveabel but will deffinitly need replacement this new year...as 4told on this lil' "quicky".
Adam wants to inlarge it when we do....and not as "free" (cost a Dime, remember?).
I truely doubt if it will cost a full $300.00...If that.
He wants it more 'perminit'...as are my other 2 (both standing strong).
In this Im thinkling a Wigwam shape. Perhaps 10-12 ft wide by perhaps 15 to 20 ft long. Useing stringer willows, and MORE in so doing.
As i go along, I find better ways to do. useing both "whiteman" and Native Indian material combined. Thus far more perminit.
The locol "law" told me "no more domes"....NOT "u cant replace aany....or Improve".
"Test the waters" now, 'legely'.
Again, these are all built in the Wise "World". MENT to be seen. Mere yards from the busy I-90 Freeway (Seattle to D.C.) and our also busy side road.
If built "out of sight" Id see no to very little "Gov." interference. Was my choice to do as i have. BUILT to be SEEN...and thus SHOW that one CAN LIVE WELL "Outside The Box".
Ghoast not as blatent as I. His was / is to be thier home "forever"...n thus much more "house-like".
Mine designed to give the Loe LOW $$ people HOPE. Aho?
The end result on his n mine is: YOU DONT NEED TENS OF THOUENDS OF DOLLOERS TO HAVE YOUR'SELF A SECURE / WARM Liveing Place. ALL comfortabel and ALL at FAR LESS $$ Then you'd think.
I hope Ive helped in this. KNOW Ghoast and Pam have!
Good Luck...and DO! re
how-to-make: Love your enthusiasm; thanks!
Hey Ghost32! I don't have words to appreciate your work and this hub. What I can say is simply great!!
You're welcome, Lynne, and thanks for comment. This page has been viewed by more people than any other Hub I've written to date.
This is fascinating stuff and well done!!! I have really enjoyed reading about all the details that you have put in to it and I await more to come, Thank you for posting this :-)
You're welcome to "inject" any time, Red Elk. This Hub wouldn't be half of what it is without your input.
MAY I INJECT HERE, gHOAST" ERASE IF NOT. Aho?
" T"; if u go "Secluded" or partly so....please know this: The life style u seek IS viabel...BUT: it takes a HUGE JUMP ion MIND STATE to do so. Especily in ur $$ situation. an ENORMOUS chage to those "use to the 'good life'.
IF u CAN do this....things go ALOT easyer.
Good Luck. re
Tommy, love your long term goals, and that's an intelligent set of questions you've got there.
First, it's nearly impossible to get "remote enough" to really be all that isolated, at least in the lower 48 states. In Montana (where this Hub originated), it's true that we had no neighbors within sight--but we did have a dirt acess road running through the property that served as a main route for dozens of folks who lived higher up in the mountains than we did.
And where we are now, near the Mexican border in southern Arizona, it IS a rare day we have visitors--but we're NOT "isolated" at all. To the west of us, about 3/8 of a mile down toward the river, a hardcore druggie couple has purchased 12 acres. They live there in relative squalor but are of course stoned enough most of the time that they don't care.
We personally know half a dozen other neighbor families and are close friends with one young family situated about a mile up the road toward the paved highway. Plus, I'm an active Tea Party member and have been part of some mighty effective improvements in local government in this end of the county.
Pam is too disabled to go out much, but she does stay in touch with several family members and two long distance friends via cell phone.
For power, I did erect a wind turbine at one point--which turned out to be badly designed by the manufacturer and fell apart within a few months. At the moment, (3 years into it) we're still on portable generators for power--especially the Yamaha ef200i model, which provides pure sine wave electricity for the computer and TV sets.
We plan to upgrade our primary power source to a portable solar generator when funds permit--they're spendy, but a couple of companies have made great advances in recent years.
We have satellite connections for both TV (DirecTV) and Internet (Hughes), and I'm hammering the keyboard nearly full time (an average of 10 hours a day, give or take). That is, I publish at least one new Hub (like this page) every day, keep up with comments by readers, do a bit of free editing for certain newcomers who need help, etc.
In theory, I'd LOVE to be a "full recluse". But only in theory. In practice, I'm as engaged as anybody you'll find anywhere--including being 100% committed to doing my part in helping Obama out of office before he can finish driving our country's face into the dirt.
Ghost, THANK YOU so much for detailing all of your experiences. It's been incredible to read, and uplifting.
In terms of the material world, my wife and I are fortunate. We have a few houses and are shelling out between $4500-$6000 each month in mortgages, etc. So, we're VERY blessed/fortunate to have the income.
On the flip side, we do NOT want any of it any more. While comfortable, it's a burden. And while we don't have guilt over it as we donate/contribute A LOT and are able to give many people jobs, we also no longer think it's prudent to be spending this much money.
But, it's a catch-22. To live in this area, and to help the number of people we're helping requires the income. And the circle continues.
Anywyay, we're in our early 40s and are just ready to give it all up and move to a simpler life. We want to have land, fresh air, HOPEFULLY a pitbull rescue and be self-sustaining with neighbors who are NOT within shouting distance; possibly even seeing distance.
Question: is this a utopia and/or some type of 'ideal' we have in our heads that isn't as peaceful once you're 'there'?
We DEFINITELY want a sense of community and to feel like, no, to know, that we're contributing/making a difference to others in some way. (Meaning, we don't want to just go off on our own, with no contact, to just live by ourselves and contact/influence no one. We believe ALL people have gifts that are best expressed/realized through SOME type of contact with others.)
Second question: how are you doing your power and internet access there? :-) Satellite and conventional power?
Thanks in advance. God Bless.
Tommy
Kinda sorta. There are two links just below the final photo of Red Elk's mini-domes. Or you can Google "Ghost32 earthbag home" and pull up a few more.
Did I miss the link to the home you are living in now?
Wow, Matt--you read this ALL the way through? I am IMPRESSED! :)
Awesome story to read all the way through Ghost. More people could learn some things from this and the Red Elk dome.
Good point.
I've heard of Greensville but have never watched it. Think maybe Pam has, but she's down for the night. Maybe ask her in the morning.
Ive been re-reading all the comments. One in perticuler intrusted me. A gal asking about A Tuff Shed holing up to Hurracan winds.
Frankly, nearly AND home can...IF BERMED HEAVILY.
One of the "dumbest" tv shows is GREENSVILL. A telling of rebuilding a WHOLE TOWN. Homes to buissnesses.
Why oy WHY r they REPLACEING with what they HAD! SQARES!
FLAT to ANY WIND. Nary a place BERMERD..or ROUND!
My 3 domes EASILY standd up to our # of times a yr. 80 MPH winds....UNburmed!
Yes, 2 dug into ground. One deeper then the other...but they are NOT "shaken". Winter snows; over 4 feet, nary a big problem at all. (I dont clean the snow off...to busy).
PLEASE, Tuff Shed or ??? CONSITER BURMEING! do so with a Shollow base (well out from the sides, then more dirt as you go). Use a heavy ROOFING Tar-Paper to the sides b4 puting dirt agenst the walls. Helps keep the moistur from rotting the wood. Aho?
DONT BE A "GREEVILLE"! get SMARTER! good luck. re
My theory is that it's nice to be able to enjoy technology to a degree but essential to be able to do without "just in case".
A share button would be nice, wouldn't it?
I am quite very surprised at this! Well, technology is great but nature is better at times. I would love to see a share button!
Well, I'd still recommend taking a whack at it anyway. If there turns out to be more time than you suspect, the place gets built--and if not, maybe the Creator gives you Afterlife Points for trying right up to the last millisecond.
Win-win! :)
Time for them...just "iffy" on "From Sratch". re
Red Elk, there've been a number of folks check in who've studied what we had to say (here and elsewhere) on their WAY to tackling a building project. Not so much during or after, but that would well be because they were just plain to busy getting it done to comment here at that point.
I hope it's not too late to a bit of building--got a project in mind myself! Just a small mobile home (used) on the next parcel over, which we're now acquiring (finally), nothing fancy--except that I've got a 7,500 gallon water storage tank in mind.
Brother; have u heard from any who uve impressed enough to Actualy BUILD! or do u have only 'dreamers'?
Seems to me its geting "just a WEE bit" to LATE to "do" now. sigh re
That's really good. Talk about a win-win situation.
today i got 4 GIANT loads of Ditch Clean Out dirt / rocks. Saveing the County long drives / time / exspence...
AND s-peeded up thier work.
This will level off our slope and make an excellent area for tents or ???. All free.
Things like this are around, folks...and free. Just for thasking.
GLADLY given...driven to and dumped.
Thus if YOU have a "basterd" area you can afford...but to difficule or espansive to get....THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX. LOOK. ASK.
good luck. re
Red Elk: You just summed it up beautifully, brother.
folks, im with Gost on Cummuel Liveing. There r those who WANT A Leader. There r ALSO those who decide THEY should lead.
BOTH can cause a dangerios situation.
I advacate EACH buy THIER land and build for THIERSELVES / FAMILY. Yet EACH should be AWAY from any others of (so called) "Like Mind. Walking distence or easy drive (IF u HAVE a rig TO Drive). IF each needs a hand on ? then ALL respond. Them to you, You to them.
IF one ABUSES n TAKES more then GIVES...then that one just 'by-passed' by all. Hopefully will learn others r NOT "Slaves". Aho? re
Bryan; If you KNOW THE WRITTEN LAWS, you can SIDE-STEP Them....LEGELY. re
Thanks, Elenin. An extremely succinct and accurate summary.
bryan comeaux: There are numerous problems with your ideas as presented. By the numbers:
1. Coming onto another fellow's page and "assuming" you have everything he and others posting on the page BEAT is a good way to get your comment deleted. I'm going to let that pass this time (mostly because you obviously put a lot of work into typing all that material), but ONLY this time.
2. It's not true that all affordable solutions for housing "will not pass code". It depends on where you live, for one thing. Where Pam and I live now, in Cochise County, Arizona, the County has an Owner Builder Amendment that was written into the Building Code in 2005. If you take that option (which I did), ONLY the septic system gets inspected. After that, you're free to build as you choose with whatever materials you choose, not even having an inspection of the electrical system unless you want to hook up to the grid (which we do not).
And we're not the only such place.
3.Force us into servitude? Such a concept is nothing but illusion. We always have options. The options may not seem attractive, but they ALWAYS exist. You say you dislike having to depend on "conservative family members" or entitlements and resent working for McDonald's...and clearly, you see yourself as FORCED into this box.
But there is always a way out, can you but see it.
If you accept that such a way does not exist, then you condemn yourself to servitude, of course.
In my lifetime--in recent years, for that matter--I have seen any number of "boxes" look like they were restrictive...until I personally changed the rules. In November of 2006, I took a job as a truck driver for a company that was definitely not a nice employer. So I changed jobs, for much better pay and much better working hours. I could write (and have actually written) many pages of examples...but if you can't see the light seeping through the cracks in your box--well, then, you can't.
4. Communal endeavors: Personally, I can't stand such things. The mini-government created by such efforts is (to me) far more directly restrictive and confining than the federal government in all its infamy.
5. There is shame in working to sustain oneself? That, I simply neither accept nor understand.
6. Land is not affordable? Perhaps not...but then again, I obtained 20 acres of land in Montana in 1999 for $500 down and $500 per month, complete with a stream running through the property. Then again in 2009, I obtained a smaller but still very workable acreage in Arizona for (yes) $500 down and $500 per month, complete with a well already in place.
5. Your walls built of 2"x4" lumber. There's nothing wrong with that--in fact, I'm pretty sure I read of a building constructed just that way, though it was in a magazine back in the late 1960's or early 1970's.
But let's look at a small cabin, 24 feet square. How much would one such cost, built your way?
First, the lumber cost: At Lowe's (I was there today), a 2"x4" stud runs more than $2...but let's go with that anyway. So, how many boards?
Well, a 2"x4" is not truly two inches thick, but only 1 1/2" thick. It would take three eight-footers to run the length of one wall. Times four walls = 12 boards per layer.
To raise the walls 8 feet in height (though you could go some lower than that--our house has 7 1/2 foot ceilings), you'd need 64 layers.
64 x 12 = 768 boards x $2 = $1,536. Not bad...on the surface of things.
Plus many, many pounds of 10d nails to fasten the boards together. Plus windows and doors and a roof and a floor (unless you're going with a dirt floor). And a foundation under the walls unless you want the bottom boards to rot completely out every few years.
And whatever you do to finish off the outside to keep weather from infiltrating between the boards (paint, stucco, siding, whatever).
And electrical. And plumbing.
But the WORST thing in your suggestions? The "group purchased" idea. Perhaps it's a great idea--if you can come up with a group of people so like-minded they never fight over the rules of the group.
Which I seriously, truly, 100% doubt.
Ideas are good, pictures are better.
i couldnt read all the comments or all the ideas here but i think i have them all beat.
there are a lot of free or almost free ways to build shelter. Most are either substandard or labor intensive ( like adobe or log cabins) . Being able to pass building codes usually means thousands of dollars. Most affordable solutions wont pass.
Almost all of the ills of society and personal relationships could be walked away from if only we had a home to go to. But we don't this forces us into wage slavery and many other types of not really free lives.
So short of building inadiquate, unsafe and illeagal or prohibitively expensive shelter whats a poor boy to do?????
I would love to bring down the government and make it serve our intrest i would love to make the corporations act sustainably i would love to stand on my own two feet insted of relying on conservative family members or entitelments. but these very institutions have left us no options. In fact they have deliberatlyy curtailed every option forcing us into servitude!
So enough whining heres the solution.
First land- problem no one can afford it. Without it you pay rent mortgage or a re breaking a law.
Solution. Community land trust. This is whare a non profit ofr llc is formed and 10 20 or more people buy and split land. No different that goin in on a twenty bag of weed when everyones only got five bucks . To avoid getting ripped off the key is not lawyers or real estate agents but an understanding Title escrow company and an equalloy understanding seller. No one gives a cent to one dud or trust anyone. Everyone just pays say $500.00 to the title escrow company in money orders. Then the title goes to the llc and a 1000 year leas is given to each individual for a specific plot of land. This reduces tha cost of a 1/4 acre tract to a opne time $500 payment per individual that last the lifetime of their entire family tree history.
Next The house it self
Modern houses are based on layers. Each layer has a specific feature. each kayer cost alot of money and alot of labor and this results in financing which doubles the cost and requres a job that means full time work so then you have to buy everything at the store cause you dont have time itself and then taxes cause it cost so much for the government to aqure ship and protect all the natural resources and trade involved to provide those things resulting in a further tax . So we see it is the lack of a home and indeed the design of the home that results in all the social ills because once a home is this hard to get then all the crap we have top go through to keep it is equally difficult. In other wise" life is as hard as the home is to build."
so what is my building method thats so freaking great and philosophical and everything?
Al right here it is. Historically it is not without precedent although it s practically unherd of. It is called Stacked lumber wall corn crib construction. It s era is im guessing 1840-1920 but thats just a very wild guess. It is not terribly unrelated to log cabins and is a direct subset of plank wall construction ( whrre interior vertical planks are nailed to exterior horizontal planks and there's no hollow part for insulation . This itself was a derivitive of ballon style
construction where the 2x4s from the first storyt went all the way up to the second story and a floor , second floor, and roof was built on all the skinny two story poles. Thees kind of buliding predated modern buildings. The only reason thees wired ways of building ever worked is becaus e they were made from old growth wood which is much stronger ( not only because of being slow growth but also because it was a larger true 2x4 etc. dimension and also beinfg air dried and not kiln dried made it as much as 40% stronger!
Theees much stronger members made larger nails hold better and carried much larger loads. Often the full wieght of super lodesd structures rested on nothing but the shhep stress of the nails themselves!
So enopugh blathering and get to th ep[oint abut this grae easy to build cheap ass building that meant i dont have to live in my moms basement and work for mc donalds anymore !
So since i'v put the building method into historical context i hope it wont be so easily dismissed as a crack pot theory.
We all have dreamed of building a log cabin in the woods but thats alot of trees to kill, haul around , delimb, lots equipment , dangerouis, not all that environmental ( how ironic hippies cutting down theeses huge logs just to build a wall!)
then theres tthe stacking, and one to two years of curing and after that teh tedious peeling of all the bark and then the cuting of knotches and lifting of a whole log into the air ten feet off ther ground. I mean come on im so lazy i live in my mons basemant and work at mcdonalds. this is hardlyu the design for me!
But still my building is basically a log cabin. But what if the logs were totalyy dried and redy to use and weighed only 6 pounds each and and only cost 2$ each and gave you an easy good looking flat conventional wall inside and out? Wellthat would be freeking awesom! Well where do i get that. Well you get it at lowes for $2. Its called a 2x4! All you do is lay them on the Pressure treated post foundation and thenm kepp laying sucsessive rows on top of each other nailing each layer to the last. ( flatt broad sided down skinny edge facing exterior and interior) In my version i used the boards on edge as a floor and roof. Also i see holed bored through the boards with 8foot long threaded rod run through and bolted to each other to tie the whole thing to the foundation. Also i see the pressure treated post running up the wall to the roof to hold the roof load but more so to provide lateral; bracing and to keep the building on the post during most disasters.
Since the wall is basically a built up truss beam the distance between post can be much greater. In guessing at least 12 feet and as much as 13-14 ! Thbis means that a 24x24 foot building could be built with inly four posts at the corer and one in the middle for a total cost of $7.50 per square foot. Includes roof wall and floor and foundation. And whats more it is fast to build, Does not requir building a road to bring in materials. Passes code in some ( i hope most ) states as a log cabin not reqireing insulation. May not require a building permit in some areas ( im talking oregon and washington state) The beauty of this wall is that there is no exteriort siding, no wall or floor covering and nbo ciling treatment needed. Roofing material can be just poly plastic and sod or ground cover. Even deck paint cold protct the wood on the roof! SO i feel it is an ideal building for our purposes.
As an expansion of sociologicval thought i hav e suggested that a second story green house ( i like gravity drip soil based hydroponic - because thin film hydroponid is suseptible to shock problems kinda like a fish tank might be but soiul based gives a buffer and has no pumping involved but all the advantages of hydroponics) ) with photovoltaic or a sterling solar parobalic dish system.
Thgis means that the building along with a group purchased well water would provide food, enery, shelter and land. The rest of societies needs can be fulfilled by craft bartering and i suppose if all the world follwed this paln a certain amoiunt of public srvice an a volunteerr or conscripted basis. Ther thats the whole idea. When i was a kid i wanted to beat the world up using a two by four full of nails. As an adult i hope i can. typos? No one reads this anyway if you did you dont care
Glad to hear the domes are doing well.
Your water "system" sounds workable; not a bad way to go about it.
Down here (in AZ), finally got $$ squared away enough to fix the big generator. So we have a way to pump our own well water once again, and also to run the microwave.
Working on flush toilets next.
All domes doing well again. Havent had the time to keep um 'up'.....(insides Ship Shape). Too many other things 'on the fire'.
One being our house cystren tanks again. Fixed just a few wks ago, AGAIN sprund a leak. Ive given up. Got the pump n pressure tank emptyed. So cut off the heat lamp there. Save on r electricty a bit.
Got a Stock Tank heater in the bigest tank so that wont freze (as they did last winter).
Tired of hand lugging in buckets from neighbore, Ive gone to a Syphen Hose. Main tank to porch.
Now we simple sypen right on the buckets on r porch. 6 5 gal buckets a day. Use 4 to 6 per..
NO MORE DANG FROZON PIPES.
Mite b a 'pain' to stove heat n bird bath...but have for now #5 winter.
Anyway, seems even bad situations ARE surmountabel.
Realy up to the indaviduel i guess. re
MidnightSpiritWolf: Your comment was denied/deleted because of, quite frankly, the danger to this Hub of providing a link to Ragnar Benson's work. The Modern Survival Retreat (book) you referenced is focused (according to the text on the back cover in the illustration) on how to prepare a survival retreat in the expectation of the government coming against you. If I link to that, I risk having this simple discussion of simple shelter labeled subversive, which (in my view) it is not.
This Hub is designed to have at least the potential to help anyone seeking cheaper housing in hard times. I'd not care to see its focus narrowed.
However, I do want to say thank you for posting even so.
Interesting post, leigon. I don't happen to see it quite that way, but you're right about one thing at the very least: It never hurts to Be Prepared.
There's a reason the Boy Scouts of America have that as their motto.
get ready for the big shake as it appears you are. the messenger has come for the coming age of aquarius and the cleansing is at hand. quezelcotal is ready to fly now. the glactic brotherhood (bird people) welcome all you survivors and acceptors of your earthly brothers and sisters and the galatic community. also prepare yourself for the spiritual things that will happen that will drive many material and mundane based people insane. much like the jesuit priests in the old days who tried to experience the true native american spirituality they went bonkers because they do not recognise the great spirit and our earth mother. the cleansing is at hand.
Heh! Good point, Red Elk; that WOULD likely do the trick. Especially if we surrounded the base with a fence and big ol' signs saying things like "KEEP OUT! RESTRICTED!"
Area 51? Hah! We'd have Area No One!
Ghost, why NOT! Would sure make a NO GO zone in ur area for ill-legels!
Paint it in CAMOFLAGE to "not draw attention"....SCARE UM! Aho?
hummmm ( : re
Yeah, having grown up with gravity feed, I kind of "took it for granted" for many years.
Know better now.
Would love to (money allowing) set up a really tall tower--thirty feet or more--with a really sizeable water tank plus wind turbines bolted directly to the tower. But would never get it through the County here. Feds have camera observation towers that tall in the area, but a civilian?
Hah!
to both; Fixed now. "Doer" of the systum didnt put on enough of the 2 part glues to lock tight (pvc).
2 Pin Hole Leaks of POWER. Water hit the Heat Lamp, exsplodeing it.
Back togather now but need to REinsalate the "tore out to fix" area...and TONIGHT! Gonna get REAL cold! ugh
Over 2 wks ago 2 trees n a bush told me "strange winter". Then each showed me that there were TIGHTENG UP THIER ROOTS...FIST 'HARD' ! Far FAR more then ive EVER seen. Warned me to INSALATE VERY WELL! Been takeing thier advice...till this poped up. GERRRRR
This cold a good 1 1/2 mounths earlyer then EVER b4.
UGH!
I want to stay away from ANY heat sordce (propain / etc.) if i can. Here, near impossabel. The SAFE LAND we have another matter. "Damn" the wifes "GOTTA HAVEs". She'll feel lucky she has place to SLEEP. I...not HER...am prepaireing for the "tommarows". Wether she likes it or NOT! Aho?
Yes, Ghost...im SURE we can face "locol law" troubel on Gravity Tower. Ive a place they may not see (asily). IF i do this Ill use a smaller (450 gal.) tank. On about a 10 to 12 ft. tower.
At this time, no $$ to do. ???
Last yr. we had SUPER ihnsalted. ALKL froze! THIS time BEYOUND Super. If it wasnt for the weak glue job, n my TAPPING it (i guess). Sure didnt take much. sigh. Now glue OVER glue...dryed b4 2ed layer. Only thinf we need to worry abotELECT OUTAGE! wont stand a chance if THAT "gos" for just a few hours. Ditto on any in our area.
Anyway, GIVE ME GRAVITY FEED Any Day! re
I just read that the Occupy Wall Street protesters in New York have had their generators removed. Facing a harsh Norther predicted to hit, they came up with the idea of building igloos and a local ice company has offered to supply material – working with what is at hand, in action. Apparently there are no laws outlawing frozen water, yet, so the authorities will have to let them stand. Brilliant! Great concept, hope it pans out.
Insulating the waters, keeping the flow, will be most important this long cold winter, methinks.
Sorry to hear about the situation RE. Sometimes if the system is cracked and leaking the only the thing to do is rip it out and start anew. Sometimes you can keep the parts that work, discard the rest and build better than ever before. I’m sure you are taking the appropriate action. Insulation.
Thanks for the info Ghost, I never considered a gravity fed hot water system and how it would have to work before.
Whoa, Brother! You've got it that cold that soon? Hope that's not a true indication of the coming winter!
You could still use gravity feed for the hot water tank. We had it that way on the ranch where I grew up. Significant pressure is necessary for the "tankless" on-demand propane water heaters, but not usually for the classic tank setups.
Biggest question mark for a water tower & tank will be your County folks (i.e. building permit). Planned ours right in with the rest of the setup from the get-go.
Trouble is, in a northern winter, it's possible to freeze the whole tower-mounted tank unless it's a lot bigger than most "ordinary humans" could afford. And would need heat tape wrap on the inlet/outlet pipes....
Well, brother / readers....Im learning. AGAIN my water pipes have AGAIN busted. Last yr. "took out" pipes / pressur tank....EVERYTHING. And ALL Super Insalated.
Now HUNDREDS spent to replace and do all over again. BROKE!
This time even BETTER isalated!
Fustrateing.
What to do NOW? with On Hand materel. ?????
Well, the only thing i can think is what GHOST n others I know, have done: BUILD A HIGH PLATFORM and GRAVITY feed.
NO pump...only One pipe line intop house...mite have to by-pass the Hot Water Heather n heat water on the stove...but have "CONSTENT water year round. Aho?
I see also tiny home "clusters"...with a Center Qort...that holds the water tank in its center. These built around THAT.
This is still done. Rurul Mex. to Africa / etc..
The "cluster" built in a (protective) circle around the court.
Pick-Nick taabel(s)....Play area....Fire pit, and the Water Tank.
Now to Implament this.
Think about this Unity Oneness as YOU build.
re
You're welcome, Brother. Your input on this page has been (and continues to be) invaluable.
readers ; Id like to share, if uve the time n $$, Ghoshts' place FAR better n MORE SECURE then what i do. Mine a "Stop Gap" only, UNLESS a Cemnt or Cement Mix put on. (As told, my "locol law" folkss nixed that for me).
H's the 2ed i KNOW who has made this typ...MANY HAVE.
I havent the time nore $$ to do so.
Wanting to help folks AS FAST N CHEAPLY AS POSSIBEL, I opted for the huts told of. "Fits" ALL my "Need Now...n FAST / CHEAP...nOUT OF WEATHER" 'needs'.
Glad Ghosts' is "out there" in public. Thankfull too hes' allowed me room to share. (Thanks, friend).
What - ever, better get a move on. For U...for ur FAMILYS' SAKE...PLEASE!
HURRY! re
Awesome! 1700 tires could form the bases on one heckuva dwelling. Do feel free to drop back by when you get going on it; I'd love to see pictures.
300 square feet is highly workable (as you've obviously figured out).
Great reading this whole hub! I have about 1700 tires on my 5.5 acre bush. Guess what I'll do with them. Meanwhile I'm working on improving our little bush camp to keep us nice and warm for the next couple of years. About 300 square feet.
That could work. The County's used to knowing that dome's there already, so won't likely think to harrass y'all. :)
Adam n I plaNING TO REDO HIS DOME (#2). wILL LAST OK THROUGHT THIS WINTER N TILL THE OTHER (bIGGER N BUILT around IT) IS MADE. sTAY IN THE ORIGINEL TILL ALL THE OTHER (AN ojiwa STIYLE...oVOL) HAS ALL THE UP-RIGHT ON, THEN REMOVE THE iNNER N FINIH UP ON THE NEW. that, WITH JUST WE 2 dONG, WILL BE COMPLEATED IN A DAY. lEAST THE FRAMEING N COVER.
pLAND TO MAKE THIS QUIT A BIT MORE "PERMINIT".
tHE INNER wILLOW fRAME WILL BE USED AS FIREWOOD.
hE B i love THESE fASTR N cHEAP ABODES!
hES THINKING OF MOVEING INTO THIS WHEN DONE. pAY ON elect. n buy CABEL! Anyway, searious thinking about. re
Wow. We've got some serious stuff in storage, especially in the semi trailer, but I'd truly be amazed to come across a $2,000 well digging outfit still in the crate!
Got a $150 worth of handle and socket used just once, for getting the tires and wheels off of the semi after it was blocked up, but that's not even close.
Cleaning in 2 Storage sheds. Found things i forgot i bought / salvaged. Things that will sure help in building new small abode(s). Amazeing what one puts away n forgets about. Things STILL INUNOPEND BOXES even!
MACHINERY Stuff mostly (on that).
No WONDER r place looks so messy! EVEN a STILL IN CRATE Well Digeing outfit! i FORGOT after covering. Over $2,000.00 just seting there! EGAD!!! re
Thanks for commenting, justin. You give good advice.
man im half chatah and livin in somthing like that would be a dream to mee haha but for my fiancee would be complaining about how hot or cold...sometimes i wish it would go back to living off the earth as my ancestors did...the white man took our country but it will soon be givin back to the red man...people now days have know respect for nature,the earth,THE MEDICINE WHEEL!!!! people think we are the spiders web but realy we realy are just one string in it...let the great spirit guide you on the rest of your journey and for my brothers and sisters when the time comes when the earth will restore itself once again
Anything that lightens a load like that has got to be worth checking out. Glad to hear it works well over gravel; that's never an easy surface.
Took out my latest
Low Houseing (homelss) rig yesterday. My Walking RV...the 3 wheeled baby jogger.
Fully loaded.
The trial was less then 1 1/2 miles. Over dirt n gralvel / hilly privit rd..
WORKED LIKE A CHARM.
Intend to do another typ tent and re-load lighter gear.
Slow but sure.
This jogger is a decent tool to wanderers. "Home" with "furiture" (of a sence). Not 'perminit' as the miny-domes, but for those that havent land use for one of those, this will do.
Save ur' back by leting the jogger carry the load.
Certinly not an "answere" but a good "stop-gap. Aho? re
I really like the "burned-down house with basement" idea. Especially out in the country, where even if it hadn't originally been off grid, it could easily be made that way. It ought to be possible to take such a place and make it "invisible under their noses" to a degree, still looking like a burned-down place but actually having comfortable living quarters in what USED TO BE the basement....:)
Listion to Ghost. N exspearenced "small" builder.Uve read this whole hub i assume. Know mt Ups-n-Downs with my locol offichels. These here and severl others, ive won...but ONLY because i knew the WRITTEN "rules" quit a bit better then they. STUDY!
As u know, one needed spend alot to built...but DO have to REthink ur wants over NEEDS.
Unless ur made of money, u can save even 10s of thousends by going Small / Less.
DONT exspect to NOT b found....SOMEDAY. More then in the past. All countys r straped for cash n r looking to ANYTHING to filll thier "needs".
A "fly over" can spot ANY cultavated abode, so even a camoflaged abode will be of little help. BE CAREFULL!
A burned down hose WITH BASEMENT a wise "buy" choice. One that allready has water n septic allready to use.
U may need to get an UP-flusing kamore and may need to do some sealing...but a roof n being In-Ground, well....ull still save a bundel. (Just a suggestion). Good Luck. re
jessilynn, I can certainly relate. You go!
First "heads up" I'd like to offer: Look out for the county regulations wherever you go. A lot of places are really persnickety about building permits and limitations on what you are legally allowed to build, and a few are not. Pretty much no two counties are completely alike, and certainly no two states.
Just 3 examples from my own experience:
1. Custer County, South Dakota. The BEST. No building permit requirement whatsoever unless you were in town or wanted to hook up to the electrical grid for power.
2. Lewis & Clark County, Montana. Not great, but if you were out in the mountains far enough, you could get away with quite a bit. My wife and I had two cabins on our land for 3 years and never once saw hide nor hair of an inspector.
3. Cochise County, Arizona, where we are now. They wouldn't let me do my own septic system, which sucked, but after that there was an "Owner Builder Option" we could take under which we never had to see another building inspector and could (and did) build any sort of home we liked.
ok, i am a 21 years old. i am barley making it money wise bc of the economy. i love the country side to east tn. been thinking on buying some land and building a cabin, and a bath house if money lets me. i plan on gardening also, live off the land.
Red Elk, the exterior portion IS done--including on through to the interior walls and floor, ceiling, etc.
But at that point I ran out of money. There's more on the way, eventually, but it isn't here yet. When we're squared away on that, I still have much on the inside yet to do:
1. Flush toilets.
2. The entire kitchen, including sink, cabinets, kitchen range, etc.
3. Both entire bathrooms, including (besides the toilets) showers, sinks, and cabinets.
4. Some storage cabinets in the utility room.
5. Switching out the extension cords for more permanent wiring.
anything new done on ur "fort"....or prety much calling it compleated? ??? re
Red Elk: What Teresa said.
Down here at the Border Fort in Arizona, have discovered we have a new "blanket" of morning glory vines. All over the place, literally, but there were NONE here a few weeks ago.
Thought about that.
Decided the most likely "culprit" for so many seeds arriving and sprouting at the same time is the Monument Fire in June. Some days, we had high overcast clouds of SMOKE and superheated gases. Suspect some piece of land to our west had a batch of morning glory seeds that were picked up by the fire and carried for miles. Until they cooled enough to drop out of the sky, right over our place.
Paratroop Assault 101.
If something like this can transform the desert overnight, needing to bug out on short notice doesn't seem like an odd idea at all. Everything changes, and sometimes in a hurry.
The Baby Jogger does sound good. Thanks, as always, for posting.
Great Posting Red Elk on baby joggers. Thank you for also making the packing arrangement so clear. Great mobile "go-bag" too.
fixing up around the miiny domes. A "court" of 2 hi staced straw bales as wind break inclusure....bbq cooker / picknic tabel / seats, etc. around #1 now. An NA "auber" planed overhead.
Then to a pile of very big stumps (no roots) will b a part og #2. Stones to fill between 'gaps'.
Pathway to #3. Landscaped. Ting pool beside this.
Think I'll Earth Burm up the sides of all 3. Not COVER (obaying the "rules") but going well up...then plant.
During this Ive started anothe "home"...for wonderers (homeless / Hikers / Etc.). One a "cheap"...one mostly store bought; 3 Hi Wheeled BABY JGGERS!
Have the cheapo (given to me) just about done. a MOBIL Foot Camper...."Tent (tarp) included.
These have 2 "tiers"...foot n seat reasts. The foot one easily carrys the sleeping bag / pad...Seat the filled (daily needs) Back Pack.
Loaded #1 for a tryout....like pushing AIR! this on graval / big stones / woods n street.
Sure saves ones' BACK. (That too used with water bag).
Solar Showers for both. A "Pac Solar soft panal on #2. (charge the cell phone).
"1 will run under $125.00, used bag / founf foam rubber pad / free tarp / etc..
#2 mush more. Mite go as hi as $350.00.
Anyway, homeless are riseing. These CAN carry for 2...3 if one helps by carrying a filled back-pack. Tent CAN handel 3.
Not many of ur readers here could call this a "cabin". At least not right now. (Give um time tho.........).
Thinking, as useuel, of others....AND in advance. Aho? re
Absolutely. Man has done this from time immemorial. The homeless person in the city, living in a cardboard box that once contained a refrigerator, is practicing the same survival skill as the woodsman building a leanto.
been out camping the last 2 wk.nds. Useing a simpel Lean oo.
This last one we (2) did a Walk About. Looking at the "On Hand" materials nature has provided. Then simi-building differnt inclosers (abodes) from On Ground found things.
Rocks to dead limbs. Liveing Trees saporting some. Off n On "on ground findings RITEE THERE for "Small" livers.
Not a penny spent but for truck fuiel.
It dosent take a foutuin to build, folks. Basicly just thinking 'outside' the box. Add IMAGINATION, NEED over WANt, and DETERMINATION.
Owning the land would sure be a +. "Squating" an option, but that would cause 'problems'.
A # of "like minded" can pool thier $$ and "do". Land AND place. Agho?
Know theses abodes can be quit elaberit...or as sparce as you want.
THERE tho...FREE...to forfill ur' dreams. Aho?
Good Luck.
red elk
Sounds good. The only thing camp-wise I did here (in AZ) today was grab the shovel and clean up the storm drainage trench a bit. Had our first good, hefty rain of the year last night; need to go over everything pretty much after everys storm "or else".
Finily got off my keesh n spent time "tweeking" Skys' Dome.
Hang a blankit door and trim the round window (tarp) n done. Once camp cooler n Water container r in....its then ready to be LIVED in.
Prety pleased over-all with it. ( : re
One thing about our Border Fort relates to Pam's need for air conditioning--which is partly due to her "redhead sensitivity" to heat and partly due to certain of her disabilities. Were it not for her needs (in other words, were I living alone or with a person or persons slightly less sensitive than Pam), I would NEVER install AC.
Which would leave only the "need" for heat during approximately three months of each year.
In a pinch, the ventless propane wall heater we currently use could be replaced by a woodstove with the chimney routed out through the kitchen's northside window. The installation could be accomplished in a day or two, and we'd be good to go.
I've always got a "what if" procedure in mind, "just in case".
Ghost / All ; Things changing so FAST economicly, we here r about "pressed flat". More going OUT then IN.
Elect. bills sky roketing...PLUSE. Aho?
The 3 miny domes starting to "look" better n better, as "home(s)....n just mite come to that.
Know what i like about "miny"? SO SMALL EACH IS GREAT ON HEAT SAVEINGS!
Mite not be a Whitman" house, but certinly LIVEABEL. Even for we 4...and dogs (sigh).
"SMALL" so EASY to maintain. Fire heats N gives light.
"Saveings" 'hand down'. A simple ESKAMO grease "bowl" can (n has) done both. Heat / Light / Cook.
Small = so MANY advantages...except space.
Learn to live with THAT. Aho?
Tho we love a cabin / etc. with "cathederl" ceilings n rm. to 'strath'....Those days r fast slipping away.
Ghost, ur place better then the domes, space wise...AND still SMALL.
If one can afford yours, a wise "doing". If not, consiter something along mt 'line'.
BUT, ud better think, n DO, FAST! Aho? re
Alan, I deleted/denied your comment because if the link (via your user name) to a sales site for sheds and cabins. Your comment was "okay" on the face of it but said nothing of significance and was a clear attempt to violate the rule on this site (listed below) that states,
"Comments are not for pomoting your Hubs or other sites".
We do have a propane heater here in the Arizona Border Fort. Wood is good, but this isn't the best place for it, and I did not built the Fort with wood heat in mind. (though I could adapt if necessary).
But Pam is jumpy about it, too. We have a carbon monoxide detector installed near her bedroom doorway (the heater is in the kitchen/living room) and always have a window open at least a couple of inches--in part because the fridge is propane, too. Any time other than deep winter, at least one window is WIDE open, and even then (such as during our seven-degree weather last January) we crank 'em open some more during the hours the sunlight is on the the glass.
No problems so far, but she's not gotten the least bit less nervous and probably never will.
It was scary sleeping with a propane heater in the house too. I much prefer to have wood. At least it has oxygen coming in so you don't suffocate. I didn't sleep much at night. I slept while they were awake.
That would be a tad nippy, all right. I grew up with wood heat (for both heating and cooking) and prefer it in many ways--especially when you've got a combo stove that can handle either wood or coal.
I plan on finding one of the old wood cook stoves to put in my place. Power went out for a week last winter with the ice storms and we ate from the b-b-que. Cold cooking in 10 degrees outside.
Thanks.
Interesting hub. Voted up!
Once owned a home in Montana that included a large shop building we called "the hangar" because it looked big enough to house an airplane. In the back half of it, was able to paint the concrete floor, hang up a basketball hoop, and have a standard sized half-court basketball court.
In the front part of the building, there was one of the "barrel stoves", two 55-gallon drums, one above the other.
My neighbor and I would go out, fire up the barrel stove, wait 30 minutes, and the place would be plenty warm enough for a serious game of HORSE or one-on-one...and that was with the outside temp at -27 degrees in an UNINSULATED steel building.
Got wood stoves galore now. Enoigh to heat / cook in severl miny-domes AND 2 that r so HUGE theyd drive u outta of my Big (30 ft) dome. Ever been ib a 30 ft SWEAT LODGE!? Wont load heavy ion those. wont load heavy on those 2...wont NEED TO!
Ivwe had 2 BARROL Stoves over time. 55 gal. ones. FANTASTIC in heating. a LITTLE wood to heat in gen.. Filled for the night. WELL WORTH THE KIT if uve room 4 one. Can go to a 35. gal one if not. A flat metel top added to cook on n made a sq. tin can, insalated, to set on n make pasters / etc. That oven cost me NTHING.
Got this plan from n old Mother Earth News Magaizine. LOOK IT UP. Worked like a chame. Cookys to Cakes. Aho?
Ok, nuff stoves for a # on As Yet future abodes. YOU, fror ONE? GB re
2 NEW stoves (small) just bought.
Heat n cooking will b ANYS' basic cabin need. Something all should consiter. Aho?
Wood, in many areas, the wisist r my thoughts. Propain will get HI priced....Pellet Soves TOO pricy to by DECENT pellits. Gasoling to have Elt. (generator) will 'ditto' as propain. WOOD a GRAT Alternitive. Even in town. U never know when Elect. will go out, friends.
One needednt buy ANY wood stove...MANY r EASY TO MAKE. More then One right IN the earth. Thats FREE.
"Got it", said the guy who spent a few years in the San Diego area...but who didn't even feel his FIRST earthquake at around age 15 in Montana, when Quake Lake was formed....
I know that one survived an 8.2 in Southern CA. But there are 2 different kinds and the jerking ones are worse. I don't know if it was a rolling or jerking earthquake.
RELATIVELY earthquake safe, I presume. Obviously, even a dome home has limits.
Here is an interesting fact on dome homes. They can have a dead on hit by a tornado and survive unscathed. The winds go over and around it and do not destroy it. They are also earthquake safe.
Also, the shape of the floor plan is important to consider for both liveable space and the amount of materials needed. Two of the most efficient forms are the circle (even with vertical walls, not a dome--like a steel granary, which HAS been used for home construction)...and the square.
A circle with a diameter of 36 feet will have a wall perimeter some 116 feet in length, enclosed a space measuring 1,041 square feet.
A square 36 feet on a side will add up to a wall perimeter of 144 feet and enclosing a space of 1,296 square feet.
The circle produces 8.974 square feet of living space per running foot of exterior wall, with the square coming in at 9.000 square feet per running foot of wall.
The farther away your "structure shape" gets from either of these two classic forms, the greater your materials cost for living space gained.
Yet another building tip:
If ur laws r like ours here, in a small abode ur allowed only a CERTIN SISE. This ROOF size.
EASY TO LEGELY EXSPAND!
We got a custom cut metel "carport "lean to". Butted it UNDER our roofs' overhang. All "free standing". NOT connected in any way to our house.
The inspecter saw n saw "add on" $$. Till i showed her it was NOT connected. Left sorta dissapointed "the couldnt raise our taxes.
IF u do simuler, it would be wise (we did) to INSIST this roof ran NOY ACCROSS but Up n Down. WONT CARTCG SNOW or WATER. Then gutter abel to cath setch n into our Cystren tank.
U , with this 'set up' can exspand ur liveing space to ALOT BIGER space.
INSALATION CAN B ADDED B4 PUTING ON THE ROOF / SIDES.
The ' gap" between this n abode can stop cold drats by POKEINF beteen the 2 spaces.
(This WORKS...Ive done so).
So, build a "big porch"(Screened?) or a HUGE Abode Liv. Area.
BEAT THE "SYSYM"!
( : re
...or even stores that DON'T sell JUST stoves. One of the best combination wood/coal stoves I ever bought was located in a Second Hand Store on a not-exactly-busy street in North Sioux City, Iowa...just sort of sitting there in the window with the rest of the "junk".
buying tip for cabin builders: LOOK INTO STORES THAT SELL STOVES. OFTEN (ud b surprised HOW often) a used woodstove comes in n MAN: CAN U SAVE BIG BUKES!
Retuned for larger / etc.....but JUST RIGHT for a SMALLER Abode ; YOURS'! Aho? GB re
$20 for an Ideal is...a real deal!
A homeless friend of ours, good though alcoholic man who lives strictly alone, never around other homeless, got hassled big time recently. Sounds like a cruel, mean neighbor ratted out the GOOD landowner (who was letting him pitch his tent there) to the County. To add injury to injury, "someone" stole the homeless man's bicycle (only transportation) from right outside his tent where he had it parked.
Not sure what to do about transportation, but he and his friendly landowner aren't quitting yet. "Went stealth." Tucked back into the brush, started digging. Now he lives in a hole in the ground, at least for the moment, though he's not managed to make it large enough for the tent (duh--this ground can be tough digging without a backhoe).
He has a cell phone. No coverage underground, naturally, but Pam KNOWS when he's "out of his hole" and gets through every time she calls him.
got 2 tiny stoves today. One an old IDEAL (a 814 modol)...$20.00...............the other a COVERTED to HEAT STOVE (wood) old short PROPAIN CONTAINER....$10.00.
1st needs replacement parts (CAN get)....#2 i will use as a "model" to a newer tank(s) i have that i salvaged to do JUST LIKE IT.
Dont need BIG in a TINY PLACE.
#1 HAS AN ACTUEL OVEN! Wife LOVES IT...not One complaint og my buying it....OR too none on #2.
WOW!
Built a Wind Brak with the straw bails i WAS going 2 use on the 3 Miny Domes as insalation "County said "NO"!).
Will rot...not PERMINIT but miz well use till then...then "after", Organis "cover 4 the wifes gqarden.
These were on my big FARM Utility Trailor. Tha trailor now in possition in "villege" n ready to b built on. IE ; ANOTHER "Small" structre but NOT in dome shape. 2 tralers to do there AND the flooring for another small "tiny" (Or tent floor). Going to add an 8 ft. TiPi there too.
That is, if the "law" dont step-in again. Aho? ( : re
Welcome back, Red Elk.
Even "all new", the dome shouldn't cost ALL that much. And yes, those photos ARE definitely catchy.
Hi all. Was off doing siminares. Just catching up on this hub.
When I returned (to aLOT of Es), one was a report of one saveing to do one of my domes. Going totoly New as much as possabel. No (Any?) Salvage. Whants it to "last foerever". PVC pipes....Zip Lock "tyes" / Etc.. But on my 'line'. Thanks Goast for shareing my photos. "Catchy". Aho?
Intrusting 'conversations' sence I last visited. Cool! re
The cats are great backup, but no, that's not the reason we have no mice. I really did build this place "mouse-proof". The storage sheds have no vents per se. There is already weather-stripping under the doors, but we're thinking the mice are pushing right through it.
Have you thought Ghost, that the reason you don't have mice IN your house is because you have the cats. WHY would they want to live there? As far as keeping them out of your storage, put screen in behind any vents and put weather-stripping under your doors. I have found that helps but no way to keep them out of a storage really.
Leaving the hood open during fair weather can be somewhat discouraging to the rodents; they like cover.
The way we handled "that kind of invasion" in the house I built in Arizona was fairly simple:
1. Didn't worry about it until we were living in it. At that point, there was not (quite ) yet any stucco shell on the outside, just earthbag walls that were definitely mouse-friendly. And yes, a few did take up residence in the nooks and crannies.
2. Standard mousetraps. Once I started seeing mouse turds, which (for whatever reason) only involved the north wall, I started trapping. Took out four of 'em, all from that area.
3. Kept the trapping going till the concrete stucco was completely applied. THAT made it completely mouseproof, especially because I took the stucco right down into solid contatct with the earth itself.
No mouse in our house!
Leaving the hood open during fair weather can be somewhat discouraging to the rodents; they like cover.
The way we handled "that kind of invasion" in the house I built in Arizona was fairly simple:
1. Didn't worry about it until we were living in it. At that point, there was not (quite ) yet any stucco shell on the outside, just earthbag walls that were definitely mouse-friendly. And yes, a few did take up residence in the nooks and crannies.
2. Standard mousetraps. Once I started seeing mouse turds, which (for whatever reason) only involved the north wall, I started trapping. Took out four of 'em, all from that area.
3. Kept the trapping going till the concrete stucco was completely applied. THAT made it completely mouseproof, especially because I took the stucco right down into solid contatct with the earth itself.
No mouse in our house!
We had a big tent for a while. It was one of the canvas military tents. Dennis said it was a GP-large. The size of the mess tent on MASH. We were going to put it up just like the one on MASH with the wood frame. He helped put those up. The set hired some of the National Guard to put them up. We were going to use it for a house and put dividing walls up in it. It would have been fun in an area that wasn't too cold. We ended up selling it to a church group for some gas money.
I heard a horror story about a new car having all the electrical cable eaten away. Something like 5500$ to repair – Big Surprise. Got me to thinking about rodents, insects and varmints when you go off grid. Depends on the location of course, but how best do you prepare for that kind of invasion, especially during construction?
Mice are never really a surprise, though it did take me a while to realize just how easy the little guys had it when it came to going in and out of the storage sheds.
Ghost, were the mice a big surprise?
What have you found to be the best way to deal with them?
Red Elk gets a lot of folks who really DON'T have a clue; he may have mistaken you for one such.
As far as I'm concerned, that apartment is the worst situation a person could have. Lived in a bunch, here and there; never did like it overmuch.
Red Elk seems to have the idea that I haven't lived rough before. My husband and I camped at the edge of a river in AZ for 4 months when we were just married. We slept in the van, had a 3-man dome tent for storing things. We had jobs and would bathe in the river before going to work. It was really icy. We cooked on a campfire and used an ice chest to keep food cold. Luxurious by Pam standards but still very primitive. We have not always had a comfortable life but with his disabilities, we have been a little more comfortable. He is aching for some privacy though. We feel like we are being cramped in this apartment because it is not out in the country and there are too many people here. They walk by and look in the windows and we feel our privacy is invaded. In other words, we need some solitude.
Ghost32 Hub Author 10 days ago
You've definitely helped (and condtinue to help), Brother--and in no small increments, either.
To our other readers: Red Elk mentioned that our "forever home" (not this Montana cabin but the Border Fort I built by hand in southern Arizona) is much more "house-like", and it IS. But the key word there is "house-LIKE".
What do I mean by that?
Simply this: To the naked eye, our residence looks like a relatively "normal" 36-foot-square home...but there are many features that are definitely "different" from the standard stick-built residence you might buy from a Realtor.
Just one of those features is the flooring system. When you walk in, you're treading on the same sort of floor covering you might find in your neighborhood fitness club gymnasium. That is, interlocking rubber floor tiles. It really looks and feels pretty "normal".
But it's not. There is a HUGE "survival factor" BUILT IN to that flooring system.
Let's say, one day "down the road", we are suddenly under serious attack. I don't mean by your average home invasion team made up of a few local bad guys with a gun or two. Nah, let's think about sudden, "unexpected" all-out war, such as might be the case if (for instance) the Sinaloa drug cartel from Mexico came across the border in force.
You know. Hundreds of bandits armed with serious ordnance and bad attitude.
The "ordinary" home would become a potential death trap, right?
In our case, though, I can (if necessary) pull up a few rubber tiles (loose lay), pull up a piece of sheathing board (loose lay), slice through the moisture barrier plastic with any sharp object at hand...and be digging a serious combat foxhole INSIDE THE HOUSE within MINUTES.
Just saying.